Power and Penetration of "Renfield", Search-Fu failed me... Options

[Starmage21]

The thread title says it all folks. I cant find a power or penetration listing for Renfield anywhere.

I assume that Penetration is 0 as a magical substance/drug, but can't find the power rating of the drug.


Now that we're past the tl;dr of the thread, this is for an infected character I've been playing for about a year. I've got excess essence, and the combat boosts of Renfield seem ideal, as it is easy to prevent addiction. Seems like a good thing to have handy for the other players who can reasonably expect to avoid addiction. Besides that, it gives me an excuse to use Essence Drain more and use my "kewl vampire powerz", which I've employed a total of once...in a year of play.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I believe that if it is not lsited, Power is defaulted to 6. Can't remember the page, or which book that is in, though.
Will have to look.

Here it is... Arsenal, Page 73

The gamemaster determines the drug’s Power, as appropriate to its nature and effects. As a standard rule of [thumb], most street drugs have A Power of 6 [unless otherwise stated].

Additions are mine.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Renfield is statted in "Running Wild"

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Renfield is statted in "Running Wild"

Awesome... Probably explains why I could not find it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Starmage21]

Awesome... Probably explains why I could not find it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks Tymeaus, it is indeed statted in RW, but has no listed power or penetration, which is why I asked (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Neraph]

It doesn't have a listed penetration/power because it is a drug and it is assumed that you actually want to come under its effects.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It doesn't have a listed penetration/power because it is a drug and it is assumed that you actually want to come under its effects.

See my quote (From Arsenal) several posts above. If it is not listed, Drugs are assumed to be Power 6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Starmage21]

See my quote (From Arsenal) several posts above. If it is not listed, Drugs are assumed to be Power 6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Indeed. Thank you.

[Neraph]

See my quote (From Arsenal) several posts above. If it is not listed, Drugs are assumed to be Power 6. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Right. My post was for the sake of completion.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Right. My post was for the sake of completion.

Got it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Krishach]

I actually have a character who I think I want to have start making this. I am unsure as to the social ramifications of the drug, or it's distribution: I couldn't see it being hawked alongside Deepweed and Novacoke by street vendors, but I feel it would also not be limited to only the "cult" followings. At the very least, it has to be given to newbies somehow. It's never appeared in any campaign I've played in or run.

Can anyone give an example of how this appeared in relative campaigns? Or how PCs might run it?

[Neraph]

There's a book that covers it, sort of. I can't remember exactly which one, but in one of the Dresden Files Harry roots out a nest of Black Court vampires and they have some Renfields.

I don't imagine it being a widely distributed drug. I see it as more of an insurance that an Infected would use on its mortal guards.

[Patrick Goodman]

/munches some Doritos, washes them down with some iced tea, and watches intently

[Patrick Goodman]

As to the OP's question: There's no Power or Penetration listed because it's not a toxin (at least as far as the rules are concerned). No drugs listed in SR4 have Power or Penetration listed. It's typically injected into unwilling victims, though it can be ingested as well if the subject is willing or is already hooked.

Renfield is also far too valuable and difficult to produce for it to be used randomly or as a street drug. It's a tool that vampires et al use to make vampiric pawns (called Igors in Europe, and Renfields in North America)...and to keep them in line. It takes the vampire time, effort, money, and a point of his own hard-stolen Essence to make a single dose of the stuff, so it's not going to be turning up on the street. It's purpose-built and made only when it's needed.

[Starmage21]

I actually have a character who I think I want to have start making this. I am unsure as to the social ramifications of the drug, or it's distribution: I couldn't see it being hawked alongside Deepweed and Novacoke by street vendors, but I feel it would also not be limited to only the "cult" followings. At the very least, it has to be given to newbies somehow. It's never appeared in any campaign I've played in or run.

Can anyone give an example of how this appeared in relative campaigns? Or how PCs might run it?

I'm going to be making it myself, which is why I asked. I was just curious about the whole power/penetration stats.

[Neraph]

It takes the vampire time, effort, money, and a point of his own hard-stolen Essence to make a single dose of the stuff, so it's not going to be turning up on the street. It's purpose-built and made only when it's needed.

I didn't know there was a cost involved. The entry in Running Wild only mentioned that a point of Essence and a token amount of the vampire's blood is used in some form of ritual, although any specifics beyond that are not mentioned. It can be inferred from the text that the Enchanting skill is required, but again, any method of crafting it is not given.

[Patrick Goodman]

I think I detailed the ritual a little more somewhere, but in Running Wild I had some real word-count issues, and that was one of the casualties. I likewise haven't really had the time or opportunity to detail it elsewhere. I'll see what I can dig up sometime in the (hopefully) not-too-distant future, however.

As a rule, though, anytime you see the word "ritual" in Shadowrun, there should probably be a nuyen sign attached to it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Neraph]

Technically "ritual" was my word. The text was "performs certain enchantments on it," which I could see as something along the lines of refining reagents or crafting binding materials.

[Dolanar]

The Renfield in this case is meant for the team of the Nosferatu (of which I am a part of) & he is hoping those who use it can pass the addiction test, if we use it.

[Patrick Goodman]

The Renfield in this case is meant for the team of the Nosferatu (of which I am a part of) & he is hoping those who use it can pass the addiction test, if we use it.

Good luck with that...and be sure to read the description of the drug very carefully. You don't have to be addicted for it to really bleep you up....

[Dolanar]

I have actually considered not using it myself as the effects are arguably useful, I have a good Agi already, nuked Str & decent Int & 3 passes already so really a +1 to each of those will probably not aid me that much except in dire circumstances where that 1 dice could make or break me. If I reach that point....I think consequences are out the window.

[Neraph]

Good luck with that...and be sure to read the description of the drug very carefully. You don't have to be addicted for it to really bleep you up....

Not seeing it. The addiction threshold is 3 and is physically and mentally addictive, but there are no other downsides. Maybe you had other negatives that were taken out of the text for word limits or something?

I have actually considered not using it myself as the effects are arguably useful, I have a good Agi already, nuked Str & decent Int & 3 passes already so really a +1 to each of those will probably not aid me that much except in dire circumstances where that 1 dice could make or break me. If I reach that point....I think consequences are out the window.

That extra initiative pass won't stack with your two from being a Nosferatu, unless you're in House-Rule territory. Initiative Pass increases from any sources don't stack - all your IP increases must be from the same source.

[Patrick Goodman]

Not seeing it. The addiction threshold is 3 and is physically and mentally addictive, but there are no other downsides. Maybe you had other negatives that were taken out of the text for word limits or something?

Hmmm. Looks like I might have misremembered. When I submitted, the Carrier (HMHVV I) and Essence Loss were by-products of simply using the drug, though they didn't become permanent until addiction occurred. That wording changed from what I remembered, but I should have double-checked before shooting off my mouth.

Anyway, I consider Essence Loss and being an HMHVV carrier a severe downside, but the way it's phrased...yeah, there's not much downside until you're hooked. I should have put something in there about how it makes the pawn fairly suggestible to the vampire that hooked him, but I didn't. Have to find a way to fix that one of these days.

[Dolanar]

generally speaking a boost to IP's from drugs will stack with most things as most wordings are "techno & magical" so a "natural" drug should technically stack IP's, though in this case it being a magical drug I can see it falling under magic.

as a note: I am not a nosferatu, but there is one in the party, my character is a simple Elf Adept.

[Neraph]

Hmmm. Looks like I might have misremembered. When I submitted, the Carrier (HMHVV I) and Essence Loss were by-products of simply using the drug, though they didn't become permanent until addiction occurred. That wording changed from what I remembered, but I should have double-checked before shooting off my mouth.

Anyway, I consider Essence Loss and being an HMHVV carrier a severe downside, but the way it's phrased...yeah, there's not much downside until you're hooked. I should have put something in there about how it makes the pawn fairly suggestible to the vampire that hooked him, but I didn't. Have to find a way to fix that one of these days.

Since I have such respect for you I will consider anything you say here on Renfield as errata.

So: Essence Loss is cumulative for time spend under the effects of the drug. Therefore if you are on the drug for 4 weeks (4 doses) you'd lose a point of Essence. This would actually encourage addiction as you could only be taking the drug for a maximum of six months' worth of time before you die. I'd also suggest a penalty against mind affecting effects or social skills against the Infected who created the dose you're on equal to -2 or your Addiction rating, whichever is greater.

How's that sound?