Power and Penetration of "Renfield", Search-Fu failed me... Options

[Dolanar]

After reading the description, Essence loss only happens after you become addicted, if you can stave off the addiction there is no essence loss.

[Neraph]

generally speaking a boost to IP's from drugs will stack with most things as most wordings are "techno & magical" so a "natural" drug should technically stack IP's, though in this case it being a magical drug I can see it falling under magic.

Re-reading the rules on the subject (I think this is the fourth or fifth time I've been corrected on this) you seem to be right. Synaptic Boosters and Wired Reflexes are mutually exclusive from any other Initiative effect, the Increase Reflexes spell states you can only have one version of that spell at a time, and Improved Reflexes adept ability cannot be combined with techno/magical means. So by the core books you can combine magic and drugs, but not technology in any form.

However, in Runner's Companion (page 79, Infected Attribute Modifier Table, asterisk at the bottom) it specifically states that the IP enhancement from being an Infected cannot stack with any other form of IP enhancements, which includes cyber/bio, magic, and drugs. So I was right in effect, but not in exact wording.

After reading the description, Essence loss only happens after you become addicted, if you can stave off the addiction there is no essence loss.

I already pointed that out, and the Goodman (who wrote the rules on it, by the way) has already stated the same.

[Patrick Goodman]

Let me ponder this. I might need more time than what I've currently got to respond.

[Patrick Goodman]

The more I think about this, the more I curse Carl Sargent and Marc Gascoigne.

First, I think I should have set the threshold higher, but that's a minor thing. It's designed to hook you from the word "Go," the way I see it. But the effects that it has...such a weird hodge-podge of stuff, some of which make sense, some of which don't. Some of the established effects and drawbacks last longer than the effect of the drug, which makes me want to gouge out my eyes with a spork sometimes. Or maybe Carl's and Marc's. Some of their ideas just didn't mesh well, IMO.

I've got a couple of paying gigs I have to deal with first, but I think I'm going to sit down and give this some serious thought and rework the description of the drug. Also the ritual used to create it. It won't be official, at least until I can find a project to pitch it for, but I'll see about getting it done sometime soonish.

[Starmage21]

The more I think about this, the more I curse Carl Sargent and Marc Gascoigne.

First, I think I should have set the threshold higher, but that's a minor thing. It's designed to hook you from the word "Go," the way I see it. But the effects that it has...such a weird hodge-podge of stuff, some of which make sense, some of which don't. Some of the established effects and drawbacks last longer than the effect of the drug, which makes me want to gouge out my eyes with a spork sometimes. Or maybe Carl's and Marc's. Some of their ideas just didn't mesh well, IMO.

I've got a couple of paying gigs I have to deal with first, but I think I'm going to sit down and give this some serious thought and rework the description of the drug. Also the ritual used to create it. It won't be official, at least until I can find a project to pitch it for, but I'll see about getting it done sometime soonish.

That'd be cool. I know a lot of people have serious Infected-Hate (Otherwise known as "Dont-get-your-WoD-In-My-Shadowrun), but I enjoy them.

Having actually used them in play, there not anywhere near as broken as people would make them out to be via kneejerk.

[Neraph]

Having actually used them in play, there not anywhere near as broken as people would make them out to be via kneejerk.

Exactly, although in my case people are more hesitant to accept even a non-augmented human that I'd build.

[almost normal]

Having actually used them in play, there not anywhere near as broken as people would make them out to be via kneejerk.

Make regen available to any adept and infected powers prone to counterspelling, and you've solved my two complaints.

[Yerameyahu]

Having actually used them in play, there not anywhere near as broken as people would make them out to be via kneejerk.

This always depends on the specifics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Starmage21]

This always depends on the specifics. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Absolutely. I'm only providing an anecdote. I'd have to abuse the heck out of the essence-drain->magic boost to get the same amount of functionality that the other PCs have now that we're 100+ karma into the game.

[Dolanar]

I dunno Star, you have about as much functionality in your area of expertise as Shade does in his, maybe slightly less due to his extreme specialization.

[Neraph]

Make regen available to any adept and infected powers prone to counterspelling, and you've solved my two complaints.

Regeneration is already available to adepts - first take Cannibalize, then Power Bleed.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Regeneration is already available to adepts - first take Cannibalize, then Power Bleed.

Those abilities are Not for PC's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

No, those abilities are not intended for PCs, but can be allowed to them (Playing The Twisted sidebar, page 138, Street Magic).

[Starmage21]

Plant Spirits that have been invoked to great form get the Regeneration power. Have them possess whoever needs regenerated for a few minutes. Heal greivous wounds in minutes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Neraph]

And Free Spirits, which can be accessed through Calling or summoning free spirits.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, those abilities are not intended for PCs, but can be allowed to them (Playing The Twisted sidebar, page 138, Street Magic).

Potayto Potahto

Not For PC's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

Over simplified to an extreme, yes. It's not even an optional rule to allow it to PCs, but a disclaimer for GMs. You're letting your prejudice against it seep through.

[almost normal]

There are optional rules, and there are rules where the book goes out of its way to warn the GM against allowing a player to use.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Over simplified to an extreme, yes. It's not even an optional rule to allow it to PCs, but a disclaimer for GMs. You're letting your prejudice against it seep through.

You mistake Common Sense for Prejudice.

[Neraph]

You mistake Common Sense for Prejudice.

No, you are masking your prejudice as common sense. I see nothing wrong with the abilities that are in the Magical Threats section as being allowable for PCs. If a PC really wants a 1 million nuyen bounty, then have at it. It's a simple matter of giving the proper consequence for choices made by the PCs, nothing more. If the PC is remarkably good at being able to cover his/her tracks, then they'll have access to some pretty unique powers and the entire group can grow as roleplayers. It's a win-win.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

No, you are masking your prejudice as common sense. I see nothing wrong with the abilities that are in the Magical Threats section as being allowable for PCs. If a PC really wants a 1 million nuyen bounty, then have at it. It's a simple matter of giving the proper consequence for choices made by the PCs, nothing more. If the PC is remarkably good at being able to cover his/her tracks, then they'll have access to some pretty unique powers and the entire group can grow as roleplayers. It's a win-win.

It is quite the other way around, Neraph. Such abilities are NOT intended for PC's, and they are even called out as such in the books. Therefore, it is common sense to not allow such things in play. You are, of course, free to ignore that common sense for a different playstyle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[almost normal]

It is wierd that they call blood mages out like that though. Vampires are strictly far worse, both in wanted status and in how much harm they do to a community, and how overpowered their abilities are.

I'm guessing blood mages were written by Americans, and the infected rules written by europeans always trying to one-up the american team.

[Patrick Goodman]

Hmmmmm...nope, I don't think so. The PC vampire rules were written by Bobby "Ancient History" Derie. Near as I can tell, the blood mage stuff was mostly written by Nigel Findley. The main contributions of the Europeans to SR vampirism were the nosferatu and the fomorian/fomoraig.

[almost normal]

Good ol Count Orlok. We had a discussion about him at the bar last night, focusing on Silent Films and German expressionist movies of the time. I found it odd that they were the only real vehicle in film to be able to express individual thought, yet no one could think of a silent film to actually utilize that ability.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It is wierd that they call blood mages out like that though. Vampires are strictly far worse, both in wanted status and in how much harm they do to a community, and how overpowered their abilities are.

I'm guessing blood mages were written by Americans, and the infected rules written by europeans always trying to one-up the american team.

Which is why Infected PC's are also not allowed at our table. *shrug* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)