Collapsible stock conceal modifier? Options

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

I'm building out an SBAR for my face since carbines as written seem to have sort of unrealisticly short range IMO (not really sure why they have the sub category in RAW to be honest since they're statted identically to every other SMG).

I seem to recall reading somewhere that a telescoping stock/stock removal should have a concealability modifier but can't seem to locate any support for this in RAW. Am I smoking crack or is this just a popular house rule?

If there's no modifier, it seems like a purely aesthetic mod on a weapon that already has a stock and/or isn't relying on the stock for RC. I'll probably still take it just for aesthetics (going for a "modern" M4 feel built off of the M23), but...

[Umidori]

I've always felt that the concealability numbers for weapons are 1) far too hard to find and 2) sort of out of whack. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you on your specific query, but I do feel your pain. There's a lot of things that aren't explained well, or that don't make much sense when it comes to concealability.

For example, what modifiers stack? If you have a concealed holster, does that stack with the bonus from a longcoat or duster? What about chameleon coating? Having a concealed holster under a longcoat makes some amount of sense for stacking, but what effect can an adaptive coloration system logically have when the weapon is already out of sight underneath a holster and a coat? For that matter, why is chameleon coating equally effective on everything? Shouldn't it be a lot harder to camouflage a complex shape with lots of moving parts like minigun, rather than something simple like a sword? What about a sawn-off barrel? Makes sense when the weapon is visible, but does it apply when in a holster / under a coat / chameleonized?

Speaking of swords, why is a normal sword +4 but a katana is +6? Normal katanas are not oversized by any means - much the opposite, in fact, because the japanese are historically shorter than westerners. Why is a tomahawk at +4, when they're substantially smaller weapons than swords, and more akin to a club (which is classed one stage lower at +2)? Why is there a telescopic staff that can be collapsed to give it a lower concealability, but no similar options for other weapons (like spears)? The memory blade is -4 when properly concealed, but what modifier does it use when it isn't sheathed? Why does a katar have the same concealability as a sword, but have less reach?

I could go on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

~Umi

[Stingray]

..Katar (punching dagger) is considered as Knife (-2 concealilibilty modifier), Sword( +4 con. modifier), Katana (+6 con. modifier)..(SR4A pg 311..)..

[The Jopp]

I would use the rules for Barrel Reduction and give +4 concealability when the stock is folded.

[Raiden]

ok, so its in a concealed holster, (IE behind your back.. or the like), its under the coat, but it has chameleon coating. now it looks JUST LIKE the underside of your coat for anyone who would have seen it. thats why they would stack. as for the minigun explanation, it wouldnt work while it was firing.. otherwise, it would if I read it correctly it READS the background then changes the color of the item/suit to match it.

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

I would use the rules for Barrel Reduction and give +4 concealability when the stock is folded.

This was pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking it was (a -2 to concealability) since many of the telescoping stock options IRL give at least 4" of adjustment and the reduction in length of the stock would seem to have a greater effect on over all profile than a reduction in barrel. I could see a folding stock not giving quite as big of a bonus as telescoping since you're essentially trading length for width though.

What I'd really like is range values for rifle cartridge carbines and assault rifles that bear a closer resemblance to RL capabilities but that would be a lot more to house rule. The ranges for pistols, SMGs, sporting, battle, and sniper rifles seem to match up relatively well w/ what I would expect but the carbines and ARs seem pretty anemic.

[Umidori]

..Katar (punching dagger) is considered as Knife (-2 concealilibilty modifier), Sword( +4 con. modifier), Katana (+6 con. modifier)..(SR4A pg 311..)..

Except Chummer treats a Katar as a sword... I assumed they were drawing that from somewhere official... maybe a dumb assumption?

It would be in keeping with past history for there to not BE official weapon sizes, but simply that stupid chart which leaves it entirely to GM fiat.

~Umi

[Neraph]

Why is there a telescopic staff that can be collapsed to give it a lower concealability, but no similar options for other weapons (like spears)?

... while modern spears are usually constructed of composite plastics or metal alloys and sometimes even have telescopic poles.

Now it doesn't actually have rules for it, but I just combine the cost of the telescoping staff and spear.