Counterspell Critter Powers? Options

[IridiosDZ]

By my reading, paranormal critter powers are not spells. So is there anything in the rules allowing (or disallowing) counterspelling to be used against paranormal powers? Particularly influence?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

By my reading, paranormal critter powers are not spells. So is there anything in the rules allowing (or disallowing) counterspelling to be used against paranormal powers? Particularly influence?

There is no Canon way to counterspell Critter Powers, to my Knowledge. A common Houserule is to allow the Banishing Skill that ability.

[Neraph]

I wouldn't say common, but it is a houserule that can be found on the boards. Another is to allow Counterspelling for Critter Powers.

The most often used one, however, is to use the rules as written.

[Alpha Blue]

Mana barrier should help a bit. Also you can still dispell them right?

[Mantis]

No you can't dispel them. They aren't spells.

[kzt]

And in fact somewhere they explicitly said you can't counterspell them. You can counterspell regular spells cost by critters, but their innate powers. Why this is the case is never explained.

[pbangarth]

There are lots of ways, magical and otherwise, to interfere with critter powers, but Counterspelling isn't one of them.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I wouldn't say common, but it is a houserule that can be found on the boards. Another is to allow Counterspelling for Critter Powers.

The most often used one, however, is to use the rules as written.

I was actually commenting upon the Houserule commonality (Banishing as more common of a Houserule than using Counterspelling (since critter powers are specifically called out as not counterspellable)), not that the most common effect was to play as written (which I am sure it is). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But yes, I get your point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Neraph]

I was actually commenting upon the Houserule commonality (Banishing as more common of a Houserule than using Counterspelling (since critter powers are specifically called out as not counterspellable)), not that the most common effect was to play as written (which I am sure it is). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
But yes, I get your point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Moot point, all is well.

[The Dread Polack]

I've noticed that in most cases with critter powers, you resist with 2 traits- often an attribute + attribute or attribute + skill. With Spells, it is normally either Body or Willpower alone, plus Counterspell if you have it. This means that casters are a bit more effective against mundanes, and it's why it's a good idea to have a caster on your team to provide spell defense. With critter powers, on the other hand, it seems we're all equally susceptible, depending on the particular power.

This came up in a recent game of ours, and nobody could remember if Counterspelling applied or not, and the GM mercifully decided to allow it, not wanting to look it up. It seems to me that having high attributes is the best defense.

By the way, what are some of the easier ways to defend against critter powers?

[Halinn]

By the way, what are some of the easier ways to defend against critter powers?

Kill the critters before they can use their powers against you.

[kzt]

By the way, what are some of the easier ways to defend against critter powers?

Don't be where the critter is.

[Neraph]

Block LoS.

[Bearclaw]

I've found Banishing to be a fairly useless power, so letting it be used as "counterspelling" for spirit powers makes it more worth taking.

[Neraph]

That's why people change it that way. Keeping in the spirit of the game, however, I would only allow it to be used against critter Powers used by spirits. Banishing a hellhound doesn't make much sense to me.

[The Dread Polack]

Yeah, I understand the point of that house rule, but I don't think I'd allow it. I found being able to banish to be very useful for my shaman in my previous campaign. I guess it will if your GM uses spirits against you enough.

[Bearclaw]

If you are way more powerful than the spirit, banishing will let you take control of it, but mostly it just lets a spirit beat on you, rather than just hitting it with a stunbolt and taking it out.

[The Dread Polack]

Banshing isn't always the best way to deal with a spirit. I found the best time was when you are able to determine the spirit's force in relation to the summoner's ability, which isn't always easy. If you think they summoner has summoned a spirit at the upper end of his ability, then it's likely he has few services from it. If the spirit is fairly powerful relative to you, then it'll be a lot of drain, but possibly worth it if you can take it out in one go, rather than several rounds of combat (especially if you're not a combat mage). Low-force spirits aren't a really big deal to take out with mundane weaponry, but a force 5+ spirit can be a lot to deal with for most starting SR parties. If you keep up your skills, foci, metamagic, etc, you can give spirits the brush-off a lot more easily than you can with a rocket launcher, and with a lot less collateral damage. I haven't run into a lot of mages that bother with this, though.

[Bearclaw]

The problem is with the drain. 2 times the number of hits the spirit got on it's roll. On average, an unbound force 6 spirit gets 2 hits, so you take 4 drain, bound more like 4 hits, so a drain value of 8. If you cast stunbolt at a force of 6, the drain is 2.

[The Dread Polack]

That is the problem. If you think you can banish a force 6 spirit in one shot, it can be faster than wearing it down in combat and worth the drain, but I'd agree that it's the exception, rather than the rule. Plus, you normally have no way of knowing. If I knew a spirit was bound, then I wouldn't even try.

On the other hand, my PC got possessed last night, and would have rather had the spirit banished than have his body riddled with bullets and fire bolts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (as it turns out, the mage couldn't score enough hits on the banishing roll and through an interesting series of events, 3 of us, all possessed, were driven away from the site far enough that the spirits left our bodies.)

I think it's probably fair to lessen the drain of banishing to make it more appealing.

[Dreadlord]

By the way, what are some of the easier ways to defend against critter powers?

Magical Guard Power?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Magical Guard Power?

Nope... Magical Guard allows you to use Counterspell, and that is it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jaid]

That is the problem. If you think you can banish a force 6 spirit in one shot, it can be faster than wearing it down in combat and worth the drain, but I'd agree that it's the exception, rather than the rule. Plus, you normally have no way of knowing. If I knew a spirit was bound, then I wouldn't even try.

On the other hand, my PC got possessed last night, and would have rather had the spirit banished than have his body riddled with bullets and fire bolts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (as it turns out, the mage couldn't score enough hits on the banishing roll and through an interesting series of events, 3 of us, all possessed, were driven away from the site far enough that the spirits left our bodies.)

I think it's probably fair to lessen the drain of banishing to make it more appealing.

hence, stunbolt. or, if you're feeling really extravagant, you can get a stunbolt restricted to spirits. whether or not that would deal stun damage to the person is inside the spirit is certainly questionable, but it should definitely take out the spirit while leaving you with (comparatively) easily-healed stun damage.

[Neraph]

hence, stunbolt. or, if you're feeling really extravagant, you can get a stunbolt restricted to spirits. whether or not that would deal stun damage to the person is inside the spirit is certainly questionable, but it should definitely take out the spirit while leaving you with (comparatively) easily-healed stun damage.

... Unless overflow happens.

[kzt]

... Unless overflow happens.

Sure, if you don't understand how the game works and overcast at F12 or something equally foolish. However it's pretty hard to do this in one shot at F5 and you can calibrate the subsequent stunbolts.