Shadowrun 5 & a lot more in 2013! Options

[binarywraith]

It is not the GM's responsibility to fix a bad system.

Well, there's that objectively wrong opinion out of the way.

What the hell -is- the GM's job, then, if not to run the game in a way that is enjoyable for the players and themselves?

[RHat]

Well, there's that objectively wrong opinion out of the way.

What the hell -is- the GM's job, then, if not to run the game in a way that is enjoyable for the players and themselves?

Maybe I wasn't clear. In theory, system should work as presented, out of box, without the GM having to fix it. He gets saddled with it if it has to be done, but at that point he's doing what was the designer's responsibility at the outset. Therefore, "the GM can fix it" is not in any way a defense of a bad mechanic.

Now, obviously, there will always be flaws you don't catch, but you don't EVER intentionally leave them in just because it's possible for a GM to work around them.

[Aaron]

"Yes Sir, please turn it off and on again, that is the technical fix!"

I was highly amused by this, partly because I'm a techie, but mostly for reasons currently covered by NDA. Thank you for making my evening.

[binarywraith]

Maybe I wasn't clear. In theory, system should work as presented, out of box, without the GM having to fix it. He gets saddled with it if it has to be done, but at that point he's doing what was the designer's responsibility at the outset. Therefore, "the GM can fix it" is not in any way a defense of a bad mechanic.

Now, obviously, there will always be flaws you don't catch, but you don't EVER intentionally leave them in just because it's possible for a GM to work around them.

Yeah, an issue of not being clear. I agree with what you're saying here, but was reading your earlier post as 'The GM should fuck the players over with the rules, no matter how badly written, if that's what the rules say.'

[Falconer]

binary:
That depends.. I don't think the players should be coddled.... sometimes @#$#$ happens.

One of my friends favorite examples is the players had a plan... they proceeded to open up a warehouse door and peer into the darkness... then stand in the doorway silhouetted by the outside light and proceed to talk loudly for minutes about changing the plan in character. Then were shocked when a machine-gun was setup and fired on them while they were all standing in the open talking loudy.... after ignoring a few hints from the GM.

There's stupid and then there's stupid.

I say that fully expecting the GM to handle any of my PC's in a like manner if I were so stupid.


Games/players have changed quite a bit in the last few decades... it used to be 'normal' for a PC to get killed in the course of events. The player would gripe a little... then rush off to make the next char concept which caught his fancy. Even to the point that I see players complain about they're not enjoying their character in some games... and rather than retire the character and make one they say they'd enjoy more... they stick with it.

[binarywraith]

Oh, I agree entirely. It's one thing to hose a player for missing the obvious, though, and another to stick to bad rules for the sake of them being rules.

[Larsine]

In the podcast on http://www.feartheboot.com/ftb/index.php/archives/3153 Mark Dynna spills a few beans on the new upcoming 5th edition.

Second part: http://www.feartheboot.com/ftb/index.php/archives/3164

Any guesses on what part of SR3 is coming back?

I can't guess since I have a NDA (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Fatum]

I hate listening to podcasts; is there anything actually interesting they have to say?

[Draco18s]

I hate listening to podcasts

QFT.
I won't even bother asking the same question. Someone else just post stuff I can respond to.

[tasti man LH]

...you got to be freakin' kidding me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

[Draco18s]

...you got to be freakin' kidding me... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

Not really.

Podcasts tend to be of the long and rambling sort that maybe eventually after an hour get around to anything interesting.

No, seriously. They do. Because they can produce an hour of contentless-content and people will listen to it, unlike say...any other medium like radio or TV where empty minutes get cut out.

(Ok, not all podcasts are like that, but damn near every one I've listened to, except Radio Lab* has been).

*Radio Lab podcasts are...well...radio in downloadable format. It's still edited down to the pure essence of the story with none of that contentless filler.

[tasti man LH]

Now I'm curious about which ones you're been listening to, considering the ones I've listened to are nothing like that at all. (and the issues you describe tends to happen with ones that are made by...well, not-so professional people. Like for instance, fan-podcasts).

If it helps, the article with the podcasts does list the time stamps where certain topics start, if you did want to skip ahead to certain stuff.

[Draco18s]

Now I'm curious about which ones you're been listening to, considering the ones I've listened to are nothing like that at all. (and the issues you describe tends to happen with ones that are made by...well, not-so professional people. Like for instance, fan-podcasts).

Basically anything that's been suggested to me as "a really good podcast in [topic]" which has varied. I stopped bothering after the fourth one.

(At least) one of them was supposedly fairly professional. They'd been doing the podcast for like four years.

I managed to listen to 10 minutes before growing bored and doing something else and tuning out. I realized I still had it running a half hour later, and had no idea what they were talking about or why I should care.

Edit:
Yogscast was one. I think I stabbed my own ears after 90 seconds. I don't really remember. Don't really understand the cult following of those two...two...how do I put this tactfully? Complete and utter buffoons?

[Bull]

Your loss.

But then, I'm also the type of guy who loves DVD commentary. I don't want just bullet point information. I want to hear the thoughts, the reasonings, and the stories that go with the people being interviewed and the topics being discussed.

I'm a fan of the Critical Glitch podcast (not a shocker), I miss Zendead's HiddenGrid Podcast. And I really liked this Fear The Boot ep. I think Mark did a great job.

[bannockburn]

for your convenience, there's even a timestamp with the discussed topics.

[Samoth]

Do we have a concrete release date for the 5th Ed core book, or is it still just "2013"?

[Draco18s]

Your loss.

But then, I'm also the type of guy who loves DVD commentary.

Yeah, don't enjoy that much.

I'm the kind of guy who wants bullet points first. That way if something sounds interesting, I can go research that precise topic in whatever detail I like. Rather than listening to three hours of audio for the 2 minutes that are interesting.

[Ixal]

As no one is willing to listen to Podcasts:

Part 1 (Ignoring the stuff about how Mark started his job at Catalyst etc.)
- Release date won't be disclosed
- Development cycle is nearing its end
- One guideline for designing 5E was "Evolution not Revolution"
- The design team was intentionally staffed by people with different point of views of Shadowrun
- They redid the character creation because of trolls being hard to balance (high physical, low mental stats)
- "Catch phrase" for this edition: Everything has a price (See Cyberware in general or 2E Move by Wire)
- A lot of 3E elements come back (when it didn't work in 4E)
- No "severe" retcons
- More focus on players skills than on gear (no more/harder compensating for lacking skills with gear)

Part 2:
- Death of the middle class major point in the setting
- They do not try to make the matrix completely logical, it simply is something different than normal computers we know
- The Matrix is becoming much more dangerous. You should get in, do you stuff, and get out as fast as you can as the corps will get you when you stay too long
- Decking will be a "race against the clock" and nothing you do will be permanent as GOD will find out what you did eventually.
- The teams of SR5, SR Online and SR returns are in contact with each other so that everything stays canon and connected.
- "Bug spirits have gone a way and are out there"

[Draco18s]

Part 1 (Ignoring the stuff about how Mark started his job at Catalyst etc.)

Like I said, a lot of pointless chatter for the sake of taking up time. :V

Anyway, the bullet points show that I have no impulse to research what they're talking about. It's either stuff I already know or stuff that was pretty obvious (come on, balancing trolls is hard? Hello, Dumpshock's been saying that for a while).

[CanRay]

Didn't Barbie say something about Math being hard?

[tasti man LH]

One more thing that they mentioned that Ixal didn't mention is the relationship in SR5 between commlinks and cyberdecks.

-Commlinks will still exist, but they are now the "legal" devices for the Matrix. They have now been specifically disabled so that you CANNOT try to hack with them, no matter what you do, no ifs ands or buts.

-Cyberdecks are completely illegal to own and use, and they are devices that deckers had to have cobbled together and are built from scratch. So yeah, don't go strolling around with that thing out in public.

[Critias]

Like I said, a lot of pointless chatter for the sake of taking up time. :V

Not every part of an interview (whether via podcast or something else) that you don't like, personally, is "pointless chatter." Some folks really dig hearing that sort of behind the scenes stuff, like to hear how people got their foot in the door writing, how long they've been playing a given game, and stuff like that.

It's a casual interview, not a legal interrogation. Chatter is part of the point.

[CanRay]

"Mungo haz wayza makin' ya talksiez." "He really does, don't let him do it again. The ice cream cone is the worst!"

[Fatum]

- No "severe" retcons

So, retcons? How awesome is this.

- Death of the middle class major point in the setting

So, are all the corp citizens going below the poverty line at once? Horizon and Evo citizens, too, at that?

- The Matrix is becoming much more dangerous. You should get in, do you stuff, and get out as fast as you can as the corps will get you when you stay too long

No civilian users?

- "Bug spirits have gone a way and are out there"

That's not saying much: they have always been out there. What has changed? They've taken over Ares?

It's a casual interview, not a legal interrogation. Chatter is part of the point.

It is par for the course for the medium chosen. Which is why, you have to understand, the medium is not to everyone's liking. For example, to the people who like to get to the point instead of beating around the bush.

[RHat]

One more thing that they mentioned that RHat didn't mention is the relationship in SR5 between commlinks and cyberdecks.

-Commlinks will still exist, but they are now the "legal" devices for the Matrix. They have now been specifically disabled so that you CANNOT try to hack with them, no matter what you do, no ifs ands or buts.

-Cyberdecks are completely illegal to own and use, and they are devices that deckers had to have cobbled together and are built from scratch. So yeah, don't go strolling around with that thing out in public.

Dude, wasn't me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Credit goes to Ixal.


And that's... Interesting. It seems to me that restrictions like that are the reason hacking came into existence in the first place...

It is par for the course for the medium chosen. Which is why, you have to understand, the medium is not to everyone's liking. For example, to the people who like to get to the point instead of beating around the bush.

Which is all well and good until someone's dismissing as pointless chatter that which is, in fact, the point to some people. I guarantee you that there are some people out there who found that to be the most interesting part of the whole thing.

As for the death of the middle class, that implies something pretty specific - a dramatic increase in the gap between those who have and those who do not, and a lack of middle ground. Middle class is not defined as "above the poverty line", either.

And I expect he meant HACKING the Matrix - I take the impression that it's going to be harder for a hacker to seem like a legit user, which seems very strange to me. I don't care how the computers work, the access methods for legit users are always a vulnerability, and all authentication/security/detection methods can eventually be beaten.

Also, if you're not expecting people under an NDA to hedge and qualify, well... If you say "not retcons", and someone comes along and decides something's a retcon, you have an issue. If you qualify that, you may not.