Shadowrun Tabletop - Hidden Stories Options

[Pepsi Jedi]

The stuff with Fastjack, at least, seems to be gradual. It didn't hit all at once. He seems to be slipping now and then, and noticing it. It seems to be advancing. Almost like corruption of a drive or somthing that's growing.

We also seem to have evidence that someone is 'Tagging' some stuff around Jack and taunting him. Now.. if it's himself or someone else, that's up for grabs.

One thing that is standing out to me though... Is that other Jackpointers seem to notice it.. and they're not too alarmed. Jack is mentioned to have been "under the weather' or "not feeling like himself" or the like and the little slips don't really alarm them.

Now.. that could be that they're "In character" so it hasn't really pinged on their radar yet.

OR

They could see it and sort of know what's up. The latest fiction even has Jack saying something to the tune of "When I'm myself" and noone even blinked, as if they knew of his condition and at least accepted that Jack being Jack when he could be is better than no Jack at all... or that they're not worried about what ever is happening to Jack being a threat to them.

So that has me wondering. The rest of Jackpoint either, are oblivious to what we've noticed. Which, seems a bit out of character for them. Or they know, and are either chalking it up to age. (Unlikely. Bull for example is an Orc, with their accelerated aging curve and he's not having the same problems)) Or they know what it is and are just not talkin' about it.

[Umidori]

> So all of you know, while I'm in control of myself I have been trying this as well. I'm using some cobbled-together equipment, and I think I have a working prototype for the next generation of hackers, though I think we can call them deckers again. I let them come find me, and when Lone Star came to my already open door, they were very polite. They actually thanked me on behalf of the GOD and just let me go on my way.
> FastJack

> Sorry if I can't believe you "Jack," but you're not the most credible of sources right now. Especially if you are throwing out stories of Lone Star being polite and thankful.
> Glitch

Things like this exchange in particular make me think JackPoint knows quite well that FastJack isn't reliable anymore, but for whatever reason (maybe just because they lack any hard information on what exactly is wrong with him) they're keeping mum about it.

After all, there's not much point in talking about the problem if 1) they have no solid leads or 2) FastJack might be compromised and they can't risk "him" knowing what they've figured out.

~Umi

[tasti man LH]

Another possibility is that some of the other JackPointers HAVE confronted FastJack on if he's doing alright, but "off-screen" (y'know, via their versions of PMs), and he just them to not worry about him, hence why guys like Bull, Slamm-O!, or Netcat aren't bringing it up.

Also, not so sure in comparison to Bull, considering that the way he'e been portrayed, I pictured him as a 60-year old man that's still got a bit of life and vitality to him. Hell, in the Season 4 Missions, dude's still got enough energy to go to a Mercurial concert in Underground 93. So I'm under the impression that Bull's got a little bit more life and energy then dear-old 'Jack.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Things like this exchange in particular make me think JackPoint knows quite well that FastJack isn't reliable anymore, but for whatever reason (maybe just because they lack any hard information on what exactly is wrong with him) they're keeping mum about it.

After all, there's not much point in talking about the problem if 1) they have no solid leads or 2) FastJack might be compromised and they can't risk "him" knowing what they've figured out.

~Umi

The thing is, if Jack is compromised to that extent.... Someone would have taken him out. Jack's good... IN HIS DOMAIN. In the skin he's not a girl scout or anything, but you telling me Kane or Clockwork or Pistons or someone wouldn't wack him if all the sudden ALLL Their information, deeds, contact info and stuff was up for grabs?

I mean... half of me wants to go "Jack's the "old man' of the group. A Father figure to some or even grandfather figure. Still, we're talking shadowrunners. And while there is alot of loyalty built up for Jack. if you were a shadowrunner (( and some of them are not nice fluffy people.)) Would you risk him turning all that info over if someone else was 'at the wheel' or something?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Maybe it is just time to lose another beloved NPC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Pepsi Jedi]

Maybe it is just time to lose another beloved NPC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I hope not. I like Fastjack. I mean I get it, if noone ever dies the game loses some fang. Still...... Kill Clockwork... or Pistons or.... even SlammO!. Leave Fastjack (( and Netcat and DevGrrl)) alive.

I will say that having this (( What ever 'this' is)) Happen to A 'beloved' NPC, does make it more pointed. If it was a jerk we didn't like we wouldn't much care.

[tasti man LH]

'Jack is kinda already the "narrator" of SR4...but it would kinda suck to lose him in SR5.

Hell, Captain Chaos had his run from SR1-SR3. Can't 'Jack be graced with a run as long as his?

Of course, if this is 'Jack's time to go, that does the beg the question...who's going to take place for SR5?

(actually, that is an interesting query: To all of you, if 'Jack does go, who do you want to take up his role when SR5 rolls around? My vote goes to Bull. Outside of FastJack, probably one of the most experienced Runners on JackPoint. Makes sense.)

[Pepsi Jedi]

'Jack is kinda already the "narrator" of SR4...but it would kinda suck to lose him in SR5.

Hell, Captain Chaos had his run from SR1-SR3. Can't 'Jack be graced with a run as long as his?

Of course, if this is 'Jack's time to go, that does the beg the question...who's going to take place for SR5?

(actually, that is an interesting query: To all of you, if 'Jack does go, who do you want to take up his role when SR5 rolls around? My vote goes to Bull. Outside of FastJack, probably one of the most experienced Runners on JackPoint. Makes sense.)

If Jack Goes, I want it to be amazing, saving the world sort of exit. "He hacked the _____ and held the line while the world trembled, and only the efforts of one lone shadowrunner saved us from _____" Sorta deal.

Let him go out a hero. Not fade away.


As for the replacement, alot of the recent stuff seems to have Bull as the Defacto Second.

I'd be cool with Bull taking over.

[KarmaInferno]

I'm just wondering if dev/grrl is going to take over JackPoint.




-k

[Bull]

Also, not so sure in comparison to Bull, considering that the way he'e been portrayed, I pictured him as a 60-year old man that's still got a bit of life and vitality to him. Hell, in the Season 4 Missions, dude's still got enough energy to go to a Mercurial concert in Underground 93. So I'm under the impression that Bull's got a little bit more life and energy then dear-old 'Jack.

Bull was born in '32, so he's only 42 in 2074. Bull should be pretty old in ork years, but he's in a weird loophole that exists in Shadowrun, but never got much attention. In a couple of the early novels and sourcebooks it was mentioned that some of the Goblinized orks didn't have the hyper-aging problem, that they actually lived a normal "human" lifespan. Kham's grandfather Harry, one of the early Mayors of the Ork Underground, was one of these. We have an in-game explanation for it, though I don't know when it'll actually see print. Homo sapiens robustus clarkus, a rare variation of the ork metagene that effects about 1% of goblinized orks, granting them a normal human lifespan rather than the abbreviated ork one.

Bull

[Falconer]

Get it right Bull... it wasnt in ANY sourcebooks. None that anyone could cite me over on the SR4 forums.

It was only in *one*... repeat that *one* novel. Remember I asked for any and all references on the main boards... and that was the only canon reference anyone could find. It was one of those half remembered things everyone 'assumed' when some fiction author wrote some stuff in one of the old pulp novels and people latched onto it.


And like I've pointed out... for a 1% problem... I seem to see it come up almost all the time. Every damn orc I see is the exception it seems. No bladerunner... the light which burns twice as bright burns half as long.

And just as much as everyone grasps on Kham's grandfather... completely ignored is Cam's mother senile at age 30. From the same source.


Personally on my list of least favorites... is Slamm-O (he just rubs me as a glorified script kiddie), Netcat (pollyannish child), and Bull (because I'm sick to death of orcs who don't die of old age or put the money up for leonization or the like). I'm older school and would prefer a return to the more free-form posters of questionable provenance that was done in SR1-3... the current group is far to organized to be believable in setting... it lacks the grit of the older materials where posters would regularly come and go... it's more like a frat party. Think about this for a moment... since sr4 started... how many of the jackpointers have bought the farm? In a highly lethal occupation like they are...

[Critias]

Just how often is "every time I've seen it come up," Falconer? I mean, honestly, how often does old age really matter in your game, and how many characters are we talking about, here? Because I can tell you I've taken life expectancy and breeding rates into mind, personally, with some stuff I've written. But the way you've been snapping at people about this lately, you make it sound like there's just armies of geriatric orks shuffling around, ruining your good time.

[tasti man LH]

Personally on my list of least favorites... is Slamm-O (he just rubs me as a glorified script kiddie), Netcat (pollyannish child), and Bull (because I'm sick to death of orcs who don't die of old age or put the money up for leonization or the like). I'm older school and would prefer a return to the more free-form posters of questionable provenance that was done in SR1-3... the current group is far to organized to be believable in setting... it lacks the grit of the older materials where posters would regularly come and go... it's more like a frat party. Think about this for a moment... since sr4 started... how many of the jackpointers have bought the farm? In a highly lethal occupation like they are...

...yea, no.

While I wasn't around for SR1-3, but in terms of story, having too many damn characters is far too much. If there's too many posters (who from what I understand, some would make a grand total of one post in one sourcebook, and never be heard from again), then it's hard to keep track of whose who, and I kinda like being able to know the personalities of the posters, which at the very least gives me a better understanding of where they're coming from on their opinions on the various topics presented.

If we just have a bunch of one-off posters that never appear again, then why should I give a damn about what they say? It's more confusing to me then anything.

So I like the fact that with the JackPointers, it's a more focused group who are all easier to follow and to understand why they say the thing the say. As for why there doesn't appear to be a high mortality for these guys, wasn't the whole thing about the JackPointers being legendary runners, and that they've all had a huge amount of experience in the biz, and all of them got Invites to the site by FastJack himself? I would think that since they're legendary runners, they would know how to stay ahead of the curve. So it makes sense that they aren't dropping like flies.

(and just so you know, I also highly dislike the set up of Shadowland vs JackPoint in real life. I hate having to sift through super -public forums (or, god forbid, Youtube commenters) of their being so many different posters, and would rather have a smaller group of posters. At least with a smaller group, who have distinct writing styles of their own, I'd at least have a good idea on how they'd respond to topics. no hodge podge, please)

[Falconer]

Critias:
It's mostly because of how the powergamers flock to orcs... because they can ignore the age problem with just a bit of fluff, which is only in a single pulp novel way back in the day. If one single sentence out of the novel is so critical... then why not the next one where he goes into how quickly his mother aged...

With the current setting the meta-racism practically never raises it's head. And the 'accelerated decrepitude' problems get handwaved away... so there's no good reason left for them to be as cheap as they are in terms of BP. So I get tired of seeing power gamed orc sheets show up when I try and run things... Just do to my situation when i do tend to run it's short haul... and for some reason people like trying to bring out their 'questionable' concepts for it on me.

I feel very sorry for the missions GM's that Bull has to help organize who have to take any legal comers at the conventions. I don't envy them their jobs.

If you remember on SR4... when I was eyeballing starting a long haul game starting in the 2050's and running up to the 70's with some downtime between things. Asked on the forums for any advice from anyone who tried to do anything similar. People got all hung up because I was going to make a new 5BP quality... that if the orc wanted a normal human lifespan because he was born human and goblinized as a teenager he could... effectively they could pull a 'Bull' with a cheap positive quality. Instead the thread derailed... and the more vocal posters couldn't get past that to actually address the bigger topic.

I don't think Bull did this with his character...as it dates back to far prior editions of the game. And I have zero issues with Bull as a person/poster/admin. I think he's one of the better ones I've dealt with over the years. I even like his backstory as he did a good job playing the character... up to the point they brought him out of retirement.



tasti:
Shadowland reflects the type of thing in the day. People forget... HTML and the web was only in its infancy in the mid-90's. Computer boards prior to this took the form of BBS's... either using a phone line and dialing into a modem bank... or telnet'ing into some of the internet ones. In either case it was a serial stream coming into a terminal interface. The other main communications medium were newsgroups.

For most of this web forum stuff... newsgroups are still superior to these web boards. Especially nice was the ability to download all the messages.. sort into threads and read.... write up replies offline and then burst them all up at once during limited connection times. Web forums have to be online to use.

So to me, your complaint I take mostly as that of someone who's projecting current web forums with much smaller communities of posters.

As for the other... I strongly disagree... I find the 'stable' of writer 'pet favorites' actually forces me to lose my suspension of disbelief. Instead of seeing professionals in a very dangerous occupation... I see a bunch of frat boys who are primarily all talk.

I got news... even special operations take casualties. Best of the best, doesn't help when lady luck gets new favorites. So I find the lack of turnoever problematic... not so much among the types like Fianchetto... or the big money guys commenting on corp finance... but among the guys who actually do dangerous stuff. So this doesn't make me see them as professionals... it makes me see most of them as nothing more than posers.

Similarly lost... in a lot of that... is a lot of the shadowtalk is supposed to be of questionable provenance and may even be misinformation. This was always the official position of the games developers back then.. you had the core material which was relevent and then you had the shadowtalk... now though... you get extended exchanges of pages of nothing but jackpointers posting.

[Bull]

As a note, when/if this ever goes into the books... It'll be a quality. I have it down as a 10 Point positive quality that can only be taken at Character Creation in my notes. Expensive, but that's mainly so that you don't have every ork player taking it for drek and giggles. It's either an investment made early, planning for very long term gaming, or it's a point sink for something that's purely an RP tool (aka, wanting to play a 40 year old ork runner for whatever reason).

It's that, or we reveal that Bull's an Immortal Ork who's been around for thousands of years. Which would shed new light on his rivalry with Harlequin. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Shortstraw]

Do the latter it will make people scream and tear their hair out.

[tasti man LH]

I have no idea where you're getting the "frat boys are all talk" line of thinking (except in regards to dudes like Slamm-O!) because I certainly don't see such a thing.

And, well, apparently Lady Luck favors these guys enough that they have it made! And again: since going by the fluff already presented, FastJack apparently trusts all of the JackPointers that he brought onto HIS site, and I would assume trusts them enough to not sell each other out (well, except for Clockwork...for obvious reasons). If he trusts them, and their established rep, survived a good amount of runs (in a biz where the chances of dying on your first run is pretty darn high) I would THINK that any outsider who looks at their posts have every reason to trust their word on things. And not to say that that these guys are fluffy bunnies, considering Riser is portrayed as being a cold-as-ice guy who takes more wetwork runs then any of the others are comfortable in taking.

Also, I have no idea why you think there isn't questionable or misleading information, because in the SR4 shadowtalk, contradicting information is brought up ALL the time. There is never a single topic that all of the JackPointers have unanimously agreed as being 100% fact. They've bickered more than once on a particular person or event and debated what did/didn't happen, and usually never coming to an agreement. It's still there, so no idea why you're acting like it's not there.

And why, on earth, would you want characters to die frequently?

If characters keep dying left and right (unless if there's a major metaplot event going on), then why should we care about them if they keep dying? If we don't spend enough time with them to be invested and care about the characters, why would you even care about what they do and what they say in the Shadowtalk, when you know that more likely than not, they'll be dead and you won't ever hear from them again?

Take Star Wars: New Hope for example; if we start off with Luke, Han, Obi Wan, C3PO and R2D2 leaving Tatooine...and we end the movie with all of the previous characters dead just because they got killed when they were running around the Death Star, because of, y'know, the dangers of charging into a military base alone without the proper gear and manpower is suicide. And we end up with a bunch of schmoes that get introduced halfway through who we've haven't been following before until now.

So overall: regular killing off of characters is bad storytelling. You gotta have a core stable of characters, who can survive thick and through, and who we WANT to care about, and who live long enough for us to care about. Otherwise, in the case of Shadowrun, we don't have a consistent point of view on the world and events of SR. And I'd rather have a consistent amount of POVs on a subject versus a crapton of views from people who I will likely never see again.

And if you wanted the characters to be THAT disposable, you might as well not have Shadowtalk at all in any of the SR books.

[Bull]

Do the latter it will make people scream and tear their hair out.

This is not a compelling argument against doing this, you know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shortstraw]

Then it's settled - the blood of dragons flows through Bulls veins.

This is not a compelling argument against doing this, you know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

My previous post should have been "Do the latter (it will make people scream and tear their hair out)." seems like it came across "Do the latter and it will make people scream and tear their hair out."

[bannockburn]

Bull is Garlthik. Makes his constant griping about 'dem young uns' much more believable.
Discuss.

(Which reminds me of him referring to my elf character born in 2021 as 'young woman' in a missions adventure. She was properly amused.)

On a more serious note: I like the quality idea. And I've never come up with any ork character who's lived that long, so it really doesn't matter if someone just says it is so. Novels aren't sourcebooks, but they are canon. Doesn't mean that Kham's father can't be a freak of nature with especially long lifespan. If that's a pet peeve ... get one that matters, IMO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Fastjack on the other hand is getting old. He's 76 in 2075 and has led a life that's been in the shadows for over half a century, which is usually not very conducive to an individual's health. To my knowledge he usually doesn't appear in person on runs so he could still be fit physically (ha!), but who knows what kind of brain damage he has? Also, he strikes me as the kind of person, who is too paranoid, maybe with a dash of schizophrenia, to allow anyone to doctor around in his brain chemistry. He's probably very opposed to léonization or gene therapies.

[Smirnov]

As a note, when/if this ever goes into the books... It'll be a quality. I have it down as a 10 Point positive quality that can only be taken at Character Creation in my notes. Expensive, but that's mainly so that you don't have every ork player taking it for drek and giggles. It's either an investment made early, planning for very long term gaming, or it's a point sink for something that's purely an RP tool (aka, wanting to play a 40 year old ork runner for whatever reason).

10 points is not expensive at all, it's like two levels of matrial arts.

[toturi]

I feel very sorry for the missions GM's that Bull has to help organize who have to take any legal comers at the conventions. I don't envy them their jobs.

Why? It makes things easier, not harder. The PCs are supposed to be able to overcome the so called challenges. So called because most of time I see GMs such as yourself thinking along similar lines, that they somehow have to "challenge" their PCs; when the fact of the matter is the players of such characters don't really want a challenge. My job as a GM actually gets easier and I am happy to see such characters in convention games.

When I see such powergamed(I am assuming that by powergaming, the characters are in fact more powerful) characters, it brings a smile to my face. I do not need to worry so much about the characters not being able to succeed and I have a less stressful time running the game. The players are happy that their characters succeed. And everyone goes home happy.

Sometimes I wish the writers would simply write up a set of powergamed/min-maxed pregen characters using every quality or such combination that people may see as broken or overpowered and write them into the canon.

[Halinn]

10 points is not expensive at all, it's like two levels of matrial arts.

It's expensive relative to the mechanical gain.

[KarmaInferno]

Bull is Garlthik. Makes his constant griping about 'dem young uns' much more believable.
Discuss.

(Which reminds me of him referring to my elf character born in 2021 as 'young woman' in a missions adventure. She was properly amused.)

Now imagine Old Man Jones'es reaction, having 21 years on your young woman. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Fastjack on the other hand is getting old. He's 76 in 2075 and has led a life that's been in the shadows for over half a century, which is usually not very conducive to an individual's health. To my knowledge he usually doesn't appear in person on runs so he could still be fit physically (ha!), but who knows what kind of brain damage he has? Also, he strikes me as the kind of person, who is too paranoid, maybe with a dash of schizophrenia, to allow anyone to doctor around in his brain chemistry. He's probably very opposed to léonization or gene therapies.

My aforementioned Missions character has Asthma and Infirm to simulate old age. I wouldn't be surprised if FastJack has similar.



-k

[Pepsi Jedi]

Get it right Bull... it wasnt in ANY sourcebooks. None that anyone could cite me over on the SR4 forums.

It was only in *one*... repeat that *one* novel. Remember I asked for any and all references on the main boards... and that was the only canon reference anyone could find. It was one of those half remembered things everyone 'assumed' when some fiction author wrote some stuff in one of the old pulp novels and people latched onto it.


And like I've pointed out... for a 1% problem... I seem to see it come up almost all the time. Every damn orc I see is the exception it seems. No bladerunner... the light which burns twice as bright burns half as long.

And just as much as everyone grasps on Kham's grandfather... completely ignored is Cam's mother senile at age 30. From the same source.


Personally on my list of least favorites... is Slamm-O (he just rubs me as a glorified script kiddie), Netcat (pollyannish child), and Bull (because I'm sick to death of orcs who don't die of old age or put the money up for leonization or the like). I'm older school and would prefer a return to the more free-form posters of questionable provenance that was done in SR1-3... the current group is far to organized to be believable in setting... it lacks the grit of the older materials where posters would regularly come and go... it's more like a frat party. Think about this for a moment... since sr4 started... how many of the jackpointers have bought the farm? In a highly lethal occupation like they are...

Pretty strong words there. I do -not- have a source to cite, but I remember the "Some goblinized orcs do not age at the accelerated rate" Thing too, and I've not read the novels. It's out there somewhere.

Throttle down mate. It's all good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/alien.gif)