Death of a Computer Options

[StealthSigma]

When cycling the power button, I get two POST codes, alternating, for as long as I leave the device pored on. Two long beeps, followed by two long and one short. In the meantime, nothing appears on the screen, and the USB devices (including keyboard and mouse) receive no power. The fans, and their LEDs, work ... but constantly cycle up, then down, in time with the alternating POST codes.

Do you know the BIOS version you're using?

How about taking the extra time to carefully sleeve and route all the power and data cables as neatly and out-of-the-way as possible?

How about installing sound-reduction throughout the case?

And then there's the burn-in and testing time: they install the OS and all relevant drivers, then put the system through it's paces to make sure the install is stable. That's more than an hour's worth of work, for certain.

Direct labor costs are going to be the time spent assembling, which takes about 1-2 hours but they're going to charge you 2-3. OS and driver installation is where they're ripping you because I would not be surprised to find out they're charging you labor for the time that the OS is installing even though they're doing nothing.

Then of course there's all the extra overhead that can't be directly tied to building it that's going to be bundled into the uppricing on components and labor costs. Say $2,000 in parts? They're going to charge you at least 10-15% above cost so you're looking at an extra $200 to $300 though I expect about a 20-25% markup for $2,400-$2,500 before labor. Then I expect about 6-7 hours of labor being charged at $100-$120 for another $600-$840 for anywhere from $3,000-$3,450 and that's being reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised to see the markups and my estimates being lower than what they actually run due to smaller demand....

See, here's the thing. Yes, I just bought a $3500 computer But, I can't afford to completely throw away a thousand dollars, because I bought the wrong parts, or damage them making a mistake during installation. I'd rather pay half that thousand to an OEM, and be sure it works right the first time.

It is quite simple. Plugging things into the wrong places is practically impossible since different sized connectors are often used.

For a gaming computer you're going to design around two components. Your intended GFX card(s) and the CPU. The GFX drive probably around 50%-75% of the the PSU wattage you need depending on if you do one or two cards and if you do one card now and plan to do crossfire or SLI later you either will need to upgrade your PSU then or get a higher capacity PSU now to be able to handle the upgrade. The CPU drives the motherboard selections available based on the socket types you can use. Then you just need to make sure the ram you get is of the same type as what the chosen motherboard supports and the chosen motherboard form factor will dictate what cases you can utilize with it.

The only part that is complicated about picking out parts is making sure the PSU has enough amps on each of its rails for what you're doing.

[_Pax._]

Do you know the BIOS version you're using?

No.

It is quite simple. Plugging things into the wrong places is practically impossible since different sized connectors are often used.

That does no good, when the mistake occurred at the moment of purchase.

The only part that is complicated about picking out parts is making sure the PSU has enough amps on each of its rails for what you're doing.

And I wouldn't have the first, faintest, tiniest clue how to go about doing that. So I decided to go with an OEM, knowing full well that a large markup would be applied. My money, my choice, and a decision already made. Please stop second-guessing that decision; not only is it not your place to do so, believeme when I say that I do far more than enough of that on my own.

[nezumi]

No, that's fair. I build my own computers, because I spend maybe four hours a week running games on it and nothing else. But my wife buys her OEM and I only do very minor tweaks, because she just doesn't want to have to worry about it. I could change my own oil, but sometimes $30 is a good price to avoid a headache and save an afternoon.

The only reason I took a stab at diagnosing the computer is because if it's something as simple as changing out the PSU, you could be sitting on a lot of money. If the box is beeping but not booting, it's something more headache-worthy. You can certainly spend a few afternoons educating yourself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's a good chance to see how all the parts plug in. But whether the problem is a little one or a big one, it'll be a pain to find out.

You may want to consider buying your local geek friend lunch and have him come over to spend half an hour diagnosing those codes though. If it's something little like an unseated RAM chip, you could be sitting on some money. (If your northbridge is burnt out, like what happened to my box six months ago, the computer is basically just parts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) )

I do know how to build computers, but still at every step it was a pain. I took about a month because I kept not having one little component. And then I had to deal with installing and upgrading Windows like I wanted it ... Blech. But it all depends on how much you're doing. I made the mistake of trying to reuse 10-year-old parts where I could (you can't).

[StealthSigma]

And I wouldn't have the first, faintest, tiniest clue how to go about doing that. So I decided to go with an OEM, knowing full well that a large markup would be applied. My money, my choice, and a decision already made. Please stop second-guessing that decision; not only is it not your place to do so, believeme when I say that I do far more than enough of that on my own.

I'm pointing out that is exceedingly difficult to screw up the purchase of parts. The PSU has the most complicated requirements placed on it and it's not that bad. It is, IMO, less complicated than performing the format, OS installation, and installing the drivers. All those steps aren't terribly difficult.

Yes you made your decision. For this computer. That does not necessarily include future purchases. I'm simply giving information and trying to explain how the assembly is very simple and that you are paying a lot of extra for a machine that could be saved by cutting out the middleman for certain steps. Maybe you don't want to do the OS install and drivers. You can still save all the markup that you would pay on the component parts and even if you offer to pay a friend to do the OS and drivers for you, you will probably save a lot on labor costs since you're paying directly for labor rather than the "business overhead" that is lumped into the hours put into manufacturing an item.

[nezumi]

But how much is it worth to know it will "just work" straight out of the box? Better, with a warranty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) When my wife's box breaks, it's HP's problem. When my box breaks, (which it does, more frequently than hers), it's my problem.

[X-Kalibur]

But how much is it worth to know it will "just work" straight out of the box? Better, with a warranty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) When my wife's box breaks, it's HP's problem. When my box breaks, (which it does, more frequently than hers), it's my problem.

Yeah, buy HPs customer service sucks. It's actually what lead me to start building my computers. I had an HP that broke down when I was 16 or so. I had to take it to them, got it back a couple of weeks later... where it failed again. (For the record it was a corrupted HDD). Thankfully I had a backup computer for playing EQ on at the time.

[taeksosin]

Beep codes are a pain in the butt. If you were near the Las Vegas area, I'd offer to dig in and see what's up with it for a six pack of middling quality beer. As is, I'll echo what others have said. Grab a geek friend to diagnose it, or take it to a mom and pop computer shop. I'd avoid Geek Squad and other corporate entities, in general they're not competent enough to go into this level of troubleshooting (as an ex-Geek Squad Agent, I can assure you that most folks there are yanked from the sales floor and hired based on having a nice hair cut, not tech know how).

[StealthSigma]

But how much is it worth to know it will "just work" straight out of the box? Better, with a warranty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) When my wife's box breaks, it's HP's problem. When my box breaks, (which it does, more frequently than hers), it's my problem.

Well. HP or most of the other basic providers will load you with a bunch of crapware so that you're already suffering from diminished performance straight out of the box.

There's a very narrow set of problems that you will deal with.

Bad hardware. If your hardware is bad, it will be immediately noticeable for every part except possibly some RAM errors. Since you just acquired it, you'll be able to return it for a replacement from whomever you bought it from. If it's not immediately noticeable then the part is the disk drive, an optical drive, or the power supply and you'll probably be out of warranty unless you opt to extend it, which is never worth the cost unless you're in an environment where physical damage is prone to happen. The reason it's almost exclusively the listed parts is due to the fact that those parts have mechanical parts rather than functioning as a purely electrical part. Shorting anything is very difficult unless you set out to do it and most shorting issues are coming out of the factory or during shipping and storage at warehouse.

Bad drivers. Usually, this is easily fixed by installing the latest drivers for all your hardware.

Viruses/Malware. Nuff said and entirely unrelated to the hardware.

[Ryu]

The board manufacturor is Gigabyte. And what I'm getting, is not consistent with what Gigabyte says their POST codes are: http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?PHP...pic,2248.0.html

They can not tell you what their codes are without knowing the type of BIOS you have.

I would prefer to find out what the code means before describing you how to do something easy that might work but might also make "brick" a true statement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[_Pax._]

Stealth ... I'm trying to be charitable and say "I appreciate the sentiment", but I already frellign asked you to stop second-guessing how I spent my money. IMO, the warranty, customer service, and "I pick stuff out, they make it work" ease of mind is worth the added expense.

I'm pointing out that is exceedingly difficult to screw up the purchase of parts. The PSU has the most complicated requirements placed on it and it's not that bad. It is, IMO, less complicated than performing the format, OS installation, and installing the drivers. All those steps aren't terribly difficult.

Fine. In five sentences or less, with only one list not to exceed twenty lines .... explain to me how to knwowich socket is needed by which iteration of which CPU brand.

Yes you made your decision. For this computer. That does not necessarily include future purchases.

... in five to ten years, whereupon I shan't remember but a tenth part of this thread.

Well. HP or most of the other basic providers will load you with a bunch of crapware so that you're already suffering from diminished performance straight out of the box.

Not my experience with this HP ProBook 4530S. Nor my experience with the prior PC - which was a "clearance" item sold through NewEgg, but ultimately from the same OEM. Nor my g/f's experience with a custom-configured desktop, again from the same OEM. Oh sure, there were a few things to remove - McAfee for example. BUT THOSE WEREN"T "crapware" so much as "we know you'll want an antivirus and firewall, so please consider these (from people who paid us to offe their stuff to you)".

So, sure, there's a bit of cleanup. But, at least I know it will work at all, straight out of the box and onto my desk.

Bad hardware. [...]

Bad drivers. Usually, this is easily fixed by installing the latest drivers for all your hardware.

Viruses/Malware.

... and "Tab A does not in fact fit into Slot B-type-blah-blah-blah";

... and "fuck, these are supposed to go together but I can't get them to click into place, and how hard should I push/twist/whatever, am I going to break one or both parts, fuck fuck fuck, they both cost over a hundred dollars, fuck fuck fuck";

... and "wait, how much power do these three pull? Can I put them all on one rail of the PSU or should I split them up? Wait, how do I tell one 'rail' from another, there's no 'rails' here just plugs and cables and oh god".

See, I am dead certain that yes, you ARE right, once you learn what you're doing, it's all so very terribly easy. But before that, it isn't. And no, I actually don't know any PC "hardware guys". My housemate is the closest thing ... and he's a software guy, a programmer, not a hardware guy.

[Stahlseele]

That there actually are such people in the gaggle of Nerds on the Innernets is kinda disturbing to me @.@

[_Pax._]

... what "such people" do you mean, Stahlseele ...?

[Stahlseele]

Nerds.
On the Internet.
THAT HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT HOW COMPUTERS WORK! x.x

[Lionhearted]

He's not the only one... Half of the components are pure eldritch speech to my ears, especially graphics cards! Have some bloody naming standards!
That said, I know where to put them and how to put them.

Pax... Would you buy a new car if the gearbox broke?

[Stahlseele]

my mind just boggles at this paradox of NERDS ON THE INTERNET NOT KNOWING ABOUT THEIR COMPUTERS @.@

[_Pax._]

Nerds. On the Internet. THAT HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT HOW COMPUTERS WORK! x.x

Not every "nerd" is a computer "nerd".

I'm a gaming geek - RPGs, video games, etc. I'm also a SF geek - Weber's Hnorverse is #1 with me.

I am not a computer geek, aside fromt eh fact that so many of my other geek-doms rely on the computer as a tool.

Pax... Would you buy a new car if the gearbox broke?

No. But I would, if the drive shaft fell out in traffic. (Which actually happened to my mother once. Universal joint had rotted through.)

[_Pax._]

my mind just boggles at this paradox of NERDS ON THE INTERNET NOT KNOWING ABOUT THEIR COMPUTERS @.@

Well, I'm so very fucking sorry I don't meet your standards of intelligence, or whatever. >_<

And people wondered why I feel like I've been put on the defensive ...?!

[Lionhearted]

I find it quite simple. You equip your tinfoil bracelet to make sure you're not zappy, then put the thingie-mayig in the socket where it fits (usually there's only one) and connect the cables to the whathaveyonow.
Then you jump through hoops for a while with drivers and stuff, and voila! computer!
You need to know stuff like that to clean the computer anyway, learned that the hard way when my old processor had melded with the cooling unit (6 years with no new paste).
I just have someone that knows such things to tell me what thingie-mayigs are worthwhile, but Im learning, slowly.
Graphics cards are still a bloody mystery although...

[Redjack]

Holy hell. Did I just drop into a 4chan or something?

Dang, in addition to a good number of nerds not really knowing anything about computers over half the people who claim to know, know less than half as much as they think they do and are right about even less than half than that.

Give him a break.

[nezumi]

Well. HP or most of the other basic providers will load you with a bunch of crapware so that you're already suffering from diminished performance straight out of the box.

I'm a software guy, not hardware. Plus, software is easy to undo when you're setting up the computer ("restore to factory defaults").

But honestly, it wasn't too bad at all. I think there were like three programs which weren't necessary, and most of them were programs that were actually made to help non-techies manage their computers better. It's not like the days of Gateway with Vista, where I'd have to spend half an hour just uninstalling AOL trialware.

Bad hardware. If your hardware is bad, it will be immediately noticeable for every part except possibly some RAM errors.

That's not true (as you yourself go on to list three more things, and I don't think that list is comprehensive). Worse, DIAGNOSING which part can be a total PITA.

Drivers too are tougher than you make it sound. I just installed my updated video drivers and it effectively shut down windows. That one was easy because I ONLY updated that one, so I could troubleshoot and roll back quickly. When there's six drivers between the plug and my screen, that's a LOT of troubleshooting.

Not saying it's a truly DIFFICULT task. And when it goes well, it's a beautiful thing. But when it goes balls up, it can tie you up for weeks.

[CanRay]

Holy hell. Did I just drop into a 4chan or something?

There's Bronies here. Close enough.

[_Pax._]

Holy hell. Did I just drop into a 4chan or something?

I keep wondering that myself.

Seriously, please, just close the thread. Or better, delete it. Honestly if I could un-post it, at this point I would.

One thing's for sure: this is the last time I share anything not directly related to gaming, on this forum. >:(

[All4BigGuns]

Holy hell. Did I just drop into a 4chan or something?

I've never gone to that site, but from everything I've heard, I'm glad of this fact.

[Bigity]

Well, I'm so very fucking sorry I don't meet your standards of intelligence, or whatever. >_<

And people wondered why I feel like I've been put on the defensive ...?!

I think he was just goofing around about nerds and computers, not trying to say you are stupid or whatnot.

The stereotypical nerd could build a computer out of some tinfoil and coconuts, and then teleport the gang off of Gilligan's Island with the leftovers and such.

[CanRay]

*Looks up from eating coconut* Do we have enough components yet?