Yep. My wonderful, three year old but still gaming-powerful PC, has died. I bricked it, somehow, whl installing the Blu-Ray Drive I got for Christmas. Must have caused a short across the mainboard, and fried the CMOS / BIOS / whatchamacallit-thingie (nope, I'm not a computer guru).

...

Needless to say, I was ... "most displeased", let us say. My glorious 3.2GHz quad-core, NVidia GTX275 - pretty darned nice when it was new, and still decent even now - won't even boot to the point of SHOWING the BIOS. I had planned a replacement ... in exactly three more years, after a lengthy stretch of saving money.

*cry*

Well, thanks to a wonderfully generous family, I'll have a replacement, hopefully within the month (depends how quickly they can get it assembled and out the door) from iBuyPower.

In somewhat brief:

Case: Thermaltake Armor Revo, White
CPU: AMD FX-8350 CPU (8x 4.00GHz/8MB L2 Cache)
System Memory: 16 GB DDR3-2133 (Corsair Vengeance)
Video: Dual AMD Radeon HD 7970, 3GB - CrossFire
Power Supply: 1200 Watt Thermaltake Toughpower
System Drive: 480 GB Intel 520 SSD
Data Drive: 2 TB Western Digital Black HARD DRIVE
Optical Drive: [12X Blu-Ray] LG BLU-RAY Re-Writer, DVD±R/±RW Burner Combo Drive
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional, 64 Bit
Monitor: 32" LCD Sceptre X328BV-FHD

... plus sound reduction, "professional" wiring / wire-sleeving, case lighting, and so forth.

...

So. A serious upgrade. And within what my budget WOULD have been (this is $3500, including delivery ... my budget was $4000 to $4500 ... I'll end up paying $4000 to the family member lending me the money up front).

It's just ... I was really looking forward to NOT needing a loan to buy this computer.

Um...

You could just get an identical motherboard of the same make-and-model and drop it in. If the mobo was the only thing broken, fixing it shouldn't be too hard. If the CPU went, it'll be pricy, but still not as bad as a whole new replacement.

The first problem is, I literally don't know what I'm doing inside a computer case. Especially, I haven't the first clue how to install a CPU ...! The very thought of trying terrifies me.

The second problem is, I killed this one just installing a new optical drive. Plug the power cable in, plug the SATA cable in, and done ... it should have been that easy. In practise .... not so much, it turns out.

Third problem is, without booting up the old desktop ... I literally don't KNOW what the exact model number of the old motherboard. I know the manufacturor, but that's as far as it gets.

Fourth up: I only _think_ that's what happened. All I know for certain is that I can neither boot the system up, nor find a listing of POST codes that includes the two different ones I'm getting when I try to tart it up.

Fifth and final problem: it's kinda too late to cancel the order for the new computer anyway.

I haven't actually tried it, but I bet this is something using reddit would be good for. (fixing problem 3)

Post a pic of your motherboard to r/techsupport or r/whatisthisthing, and you probably could have the answer inside of a few hours.

As to the other problems...

The Reddit thing might help. Or I can just take it in to a repair shop, and see if they can do anything with it (I'd intended to pass the computer on to my mother, when I upgraded .... it'd've been unsuitable for games by then, but for Websurfing, email, watching movies ...? Drop in a fresh PSU and it would have been just dandy, for years to come.)

Kicker is, I have the full and EXACT specs up on some hardware site or other, including the motherboard (I'm the one that provided them with the specs for their database, even) ... but the link to that site is, you guess it, on the dead PC. Whoopsie.

If you have a Computer Guy in your circle of friends, you can probably get him to put it together for a few hundred. Dropping in a CPU chip? Yeah, I won't even try that.



Yeah, it really should have been. I can't imagine installing an optical drive bricking the system; it's possible (though not likely) that you fucked up the mobo when you tinkered with it. I'd suspect a bad drive, though.



A Computer Guy (or a repair shop) can find that out by pulling the parts from your computer and Googleing them. That simple.



It's Bricked. If it's that badly Bricked, then either the PSU is bad, the mobo is bad, the CPU is bad, or some combination thereof is bad.



Well, nothing I can suggest about that one except cancel it, if there's still time. If not... C'est la vie.

1.) i am not much of a Fan of AMD, but that's your choice.
2.) forget about Crossfire or SLI, it's simply not worth it.
3.) a 1200 Watt PSU is overkill, if you don't do the Crossfire/SLI
4.) use a 256GB Samsung Series 830 or 840 SSD, nothing more.
5.) use a 3TB WD Green as Datastorage.

The OEM, iBuyPower, doesn't carry Samsung SSDs. The Intel I picked has very good read and write speeds, and the size somewhat future-proofs me.


2TB was the biggest WD of any sort the OEM offers.

My primary advice would be to get a much weaker system, and upgrade more often if necessary.

- I´d start at Tomshardware for CPU choice: here. The cheap one should to the trick (and is cheaper than in the test.)

- The crossfire stuff is not worth it IMO. Power consumption, noise and heat are all serious considerations for such a setup.

- Your system should run fine with 8GB of memory, unless you use that thing professionally. AFAIK memory speed is not important for performance for the i-cores, so maybe reconsider your choice based on CPU. DO CHECK COMPATIBILITY WITH YOUR BOARD! I spend most of last Friday installing Win7 again and again and again, until we had the RAM isolated as troublemaker. Bought memory from the compatibility list, crashes are gone completely.

- I´ll second Stahlseele and suggest a 256MB or smaller SSD.

Is this factual or an assumption?

Here's some basic troubleshooting steps to make sure you're not committing an ID ten T error.

1. Check to make sure the power supply is plugged in.
* If this is your problem then I shall smack you and tell you to plug it in.
2. Check to make sure the power supply switch (if it has one) is on rather than off.
* If this is your problem then I shall still smack you, just not as hard as if #1 was the problem, and tell you to flip the switch.
3. Check for idle LED light on motherboard while power supply is on.
* If you have no idle light then either the PSU is not getting power to the motherboard or the motherboard has an issue (or your motherboard doesn't have one).

I'm generally leery of any PSU related issues and failures and yours sounds like a PSU failure. It's practically impossible to tell how a PSU failed and when it does it's the single component most likely to damage other components of a computer depending on how it fails. Of course, you can't tell if it damage other components until you get a replacement PSU.

I'm also kind of curious how installing an optical drive could have killed a computer. When you turn it on, does the fan start up? You didn't drop any screws on the motherboard, did you?

(If the BIOS isn't starting up, it's either the PSU or motherboard. That's pretty easy to diagnose. I'd be surprised if the processor is damaged.)

Building a computer is pretty easy to do. I taught my eight-year-old. The only real important part is de-static yourself and hold everything by the edges where there's no conducting bits.

But it sounds like that's not your cup of tea, and that's fine

Consider either selling your old components to a local geek who can use them, or donate them. There's a place in my area which rebuilds computers for schools.

What OS are you putting on?

Well, it could be that adding the optical drive drew more current than the PSU could handle. Also failing to ground himself while installing could cause damage....

Ah I remember the days of dropping that kind of coin on a computer.


Then I had kids. And for some reason they insist on being fed and having clothes and toys. Back in my day...!! etc

I'm actually switching to a laptop here in a few months when the old desktop is finally getting replaced. I guess that prevents me from upgrading as often, but the portability will be nice as I travel frequently enough now in my new job that there are times when I want to fire up a game or something from the hotel.

I will say that the 480 gig SSD is alot of money you probably won't get much use out of. By the time you'd need a system drive that big, the price will probably have come way down. I mean, I could load up all of my steam games, pics, and music onto that size SSD and still have lots left over, and putting music and pics on there is a waste anyway.

Here is a suggestion that even uses the Crossfire stuff.

Okay. Let's not forget that he's also paying for the labor to build and test the device. That's easily $500 of the total cost and possibly pushing closer towards $750-$1000.

what? O.o
building such a Computer takes, if you install all the OS-Updates and certain Software, all of 4 Hours.
Even 100 Bucks for assembly is an hourly wage of 25 bucks. 500 Bucks for Assembly and some testing?
Absurd. o.O

In the US, $50/hr is pretty common for manufacturing. Most computing and technology labor costs are upwards of $120-$150/hr when billed out. Then you have the overhead costs of the business that are also being included on top of it.

That was my thought (that and the clue that he can't get to the BIOS screen). Unless the PC was custom-built for expandaibility and gaming, the PSU is almost certainly strained with the default loadout. One more thing ... But a new PSU is $100 and one of the easiest pieces of hardware to install (assuming you don't drop it on said mobo).

Someone showed me a cool doohicky where you install a small SSD literally on top of a standard drive, and it works as a super-fast page file. It was about $150. Looked pretty slick.

I'd also echo the comments that, currently, AMD is probably not the best choice. I love AMD, but Intel just came out with their new Ivy Bridge, and AMD is a little behind for the moment. You might get a price break, but otherwise I wouldn't see much reason to go for the lesser architecture (especially for a gaming machine).

This is why I build all my computers. I spent around $1500 - $1700 on my last computer (last year) and I've had no major problems, although sometimes the SSDs give me a litle grief... they don't appear to be entirely bug free yet. I'm also running it on a Micro ITX board and in case that is barely larger than my Xbox360. Building a computer from scratch is daunting at first, but once you've done it a couple of times it become relatively easy.

Hereabouts the whole service is available for 100€ if bought from a supplier with competitive component prices. My group of friends did this DIY all the time when we were 18, and it is still a rewarding accomplishment even at our price level. Or said another way: If I could get around $750 for assembling a PC, going to University would have been a great waste of time.

"Much weaker" wouldn't be what I want.

You're also basically advising the guy who just bricked one computer with a simple install, to build the new one from the ground up.






When cycling the power button, I get two POST codes, alternating, for as long as I leave the device pored on. Two long beeps, followed by two long and one short. In the meantime, nothing appears on the screen, and the USB devices (including keyboard and mouse) receive no power. The fans, and their LEDs, work ... but constantly cycle up, then down, in time with the alternating POST codes.






It is entirely possible that the BRD installation was completely coincidental to a failure just waiting to happen. Or, static electricity. Or, I had to disconnect a few power cables in order to get into the case to where I could put the new drive in, and hook it up for power and data; I may have damaged somethign when taking those cables out, or putting them back in. Honestly, I don't know for certain what the ultimate cause is. I only know, that last week it was fine, and this week it's a beeping brick.

Lucky for me, RE: dropping screws, the case has tool-less drive bays.


Your eight-year-old had the advantage of a teacher who presumably knows what s/he is doing. That gives the kid a clear advantge over "I can read up on it over the internet, but that's about it" me.


Yep, that's the plan, now. If it'd still been in working condition I'd've given it to my mother, but ... *shrug* ... the BluRay and HDD come out - g/f wants the one, all my shadowrun stuff is on the other. Then I'll donate it, somewhere or other. Windows Serial# included (sticker right on the case has that).


The new one? Win7 Pro 64.






Exactly.






How about taking the extra time to carefully sleeve and route all the power and data cables as neatly and out-of-the-way as possible?

How about installing sound-reduction throughout the case?

And then there's the burn-in and testing time: they install the OS and all relevant drivers, then put the system through it's paces to make sure the install is stable. That's more than an hour's worth of work, for certain.






See, here's the thing. Yes, I just bought a $3500 computer But, I can't afford to completely throw away a thousand dollars, because I bought the wrong parts, or damage them making a mistake during installation. I'd rather pay half that thousand to an OEM, and be sure it works right the first time.





And in the end, I'm really not happy feeling like I have to defend how and where I chose to spend my money. >:(

We're all just trying to inform you on how to save a buck or two. Take it or leave it. I used to buy pre-built computers until I realized how much less it would cost to do it myself. Because I'm not making enough money for it to not be worth my time. So now I do some research on parts on compatibility and build away, and when I started I read everything VERY closely. I'm far from a tech guru - I'm just a gamer who builds his own rigs.

You don't need to defend your actions and you've already done it anyhow.

I had to do some research to find a solution up your alley, and I´m used to much lower assembly prices. And then I enjoy researching new toys.

The system you ordered is very powerful, and should be able to feed that monster of a display well (another thing you get for the price margin btw). So in the spirit of the season I feel I could maybe allow you to proceed as planned.

various beepcodes ; another list

Could be one POST message from the Award/Phoenix BIOS variant (2-2-1) pointing at the memory. We´d need maker and type of your motherboard to continue. Check if the RAM is firmly in place just to make sure.

The board manufacturor is Gigabyte. And what I'm getting, is not consistent with what Gigabyte says their POST codes are: http://forum.giga-byte.co.uk/index.php?PHP...pic,2248.0.html

Do you know the BIOS version you're using?



Direct labor costs are going to be the time spent assembling, which takes about 1-2 hours but they're going to charge you 2-3. OS and driver installation is where they're ripping you because I would not be surprised to find out they're charging you labor for the time that the OS is installing even though they're doing nothing.

Then of course there's all the extra overhead that can't be directly tied to building it that's going to be bundled into the uppricing on components and labor costs. Say $2,000 in parts? They're going to charge you at least 10-15% above cost so you're looking at an extra $200 to $300 though I expect about a 20-25% markup for $2,400-$2,500 before labor. Then I expect about 6-7 hours of labor being charged at $100-$120 for another $600-$840 for anywhere from $3,000-$3,450 and that's being reasonable. I wouldn't be surprised to see the markups and my estimates being lower than what they actually run due to smaller demand....



It is quite simple. Plugging things into the wrong places is practically impossible since different sized connectors are often used.

For a gaming computer you're going to design around two components. Your intended GFX card(s) and the CPU. The GFX drive probably around 50%-75% of the the PSU wattage you need depending on if you do one or two cards and if you do one card now and plan to do crossfire or SLI later you either will need to upgrade your PSU then or get a higher capacity PSU now to be able to handle the upgrade. The CPU drives the motherboard selections available based on the socket types you can use. Then you just need to make sure the ram you get is of the same type as what the chosen motherboard supports and the chosen motherboard form factor will dictate what cases you can utilize with it.

The only part that is complicated about picking out parts is making sure the PSU has enough amps on each of its rails for what you're doing.

No.


That does no good, when the mistake occurred at the moment of purchase.


And I wouldn't have the first, faintest, tiniest clue how to go about doing that. So I decided to go with an OEM, knowing full well that a large markup would be applied. My money, my choice, and a decision already made. Please stop second-guessing that decision; not only is it not your place to do so, believeme when I say that I do far more than enough of that on my own.

No, that's fair. I build my own computers, because I spend maybe four hours a week running games on it and nothing else. But my wife buys her OEM and I only do very minor tweaks, because she just doesn't want to have to worry about it. I could change my own oil, but sometimes $30 is a good price to avoid a headache and save an afternoon.

The only reason I took a stab at diagnosing the computer is because if it's something as simple as changing out the PSU, you could be sitting on a lot of money. If the box is beeping but not booting, it's something more headache-worthy. You can certainly spend a few afternoons educating yourself It's a good chance to see how all the parts plug in. But whether the problem is a little one or a big one, it'll be a pain to find out.

You may want to consider buying your local geek friend lunch and have him come over to spend half an hour diagnosing those codes though. If it's something little like an unseated RAM chip, you could be sitting on some money. (If your northbridge is burnt out, like what happened to my box six months ago, the computer is basically just parts )

I do know how to build computers, but still at every step it was a pain. I took about a month because I kept not having one little component. And then I had to deal with installing and upgrading Windows like I wanted it ... Blech. But it all depends on how much you're doing. I made the mistake of trying to reuse 10-year-old parts where I could (you can't).

I'm pointing out that is exceedingly difficult to screw up the purchase of parts. The PSU has the most complicated requirements placed on it and it's not that bad. It is, IMO, less complicated than performing the format, OS installation, and installing the drivers. All those steps aren't terribly difficult.

Yes you made your decision. For this computer. That does not necessarily include future purchases. I'm simply giving information and trying to explain how the assembly is very simple and that you are paying a lot of extra for a machine that could be saved by cutting out the middleman for certain steps. Maybe you don't want to do the OS install and drivers. You can still save all the markup that you would pay on the component parts and even if you offer to pay a friend to do the OS and drivers for you, you will probably save a lot on labor costs since you're paying directly for labor rather than the "business overhead" that is lumped into the hours put into manufacturing an item.

But how much is it worth to know it will "just work" straight out of the box? Better, with a warranty When my wife's box breaks, it's HP's problem. When my box breaks, (which it does, more frequently than hers), it's my problem.

Yeah, buy HPs customer service sucks. It's actually what lead me to start building my computers. I had an HP that broke down when I was 16 or so. I had to take it to them, got it back a couple of weeks later... where it failed again. (For the record it was a corrupted HDD). Thankfully I had a backup computer for playing EQ on at the time.

Beep codes are a pain in the butt. If you were near the Las Vegas area, I'd offer to dig in and see what's up with it for a six pack of middling quality beer. As is, I'll echo what others have said. Grab a geek friend to diagnose it, or take it to a mom and pop computer shop. I'd avoid Geek Squad and other corporate entities, in general they're not competent enough to go into this level of troubleshooting (as an ex-Geek Squad Agent, I can assure you that most folks there are yanked from the sales floor and hired based on having a nice hair cut, not tech know how).

Well. HP or most of the other basic providers will load you with a bunch of crapware so that you're already suffering from diminished performance straight out of the box.

There's a very narrow set of problems that you will deal with.

Bad hardware. If your hardware is bad, it will be immediately noticeable for every part except possibly some RAM errors. Since you just acquired it, you'll be able to return it for a replacement from whomever you bought it from. If it's not immediately noticeable then the part is the disk drive, an optical drive, or the power supply and you'll probably be out of warranty unless you opt to extend it, which is never worth the cost unless you're in an environment where physical damage is prone to happen. The reason it's almost exclusively the listed parts is due to the fact that those parts have mechanical parts rather than functioning as a purely electrical part. Shorting anything is very difficult unless you set out to do it and most shorting issues are coming out of the factory or during shipping and storage at warehouse.

Bad drivers. Usually, this is easily fixed by installing the latest drivers for all your hardware.

Viruses/Malware. Nuff said and entirely unrelated to the hardware.

They can not tell you what their codes are without knowing the type of BIOS you have.

I would prefer to find out what the code means before describing you how to do something easy that might work but might also make "brick" a true statement.

Stealth ... I'm trying to be charitable and say "I appreciate the sentiment", but I already frellign asked you to stop second-guessing how I spent my money. IMO, the warranty, customer service, and "I pick stuff out, they make it work" ease of mind is worth the added expense.


Fine. In five sentences or less, with only one list not to exceed twenty lines .... explain to me how to knwowich socket is needed by which iteration of which CPU brand.


... in five to ten years, whereupon I shan't remember but a tenth part of this thread.



Not my experience with this HP ProBook 4530S. Nor my experience with the prior PC - which was a "clearance" item sold through NewEgg, but ultimately from the same OEM. Nor my g/f's experience with a custom-configured desktop, again from the same OEM. Oh sure, there were a few things to remove - McAfee for example. BUT THOSE WEREN"T "crapware" so much as "we know you'll want an antivirus and firewall, so please consider these (from people who paid us to offe their stuff to you)".

So, sure, there's a bit of cleanup. But, at least I know it will work at all, straight out of the box and onto my desk.



... and "Tab A does not in fact fit into Slot B-type-blah-blah-blah";

... and "fuck, these are supposed to go together but I can't get them to click into place, and how hard should I push/twist/whatever, am I going to break one or both parts, fuck fuck fuck, they both cost over a hundred dollars, fuck fuck fuck";

... and "wait, how much power do these three pull? Can I put them all on one rail of the PSU or should I split them up? Wait, how do I tell one 'rail' from another, there's no 'rails' here just plugs and cables and oh god".

See, I am dead certain that yes, you ARE right, once you learn what you're doing, it's all so very terribly easy. But before that, it isn't. And no, I actually don't know any PC "hardware guys". My housemate is the closest thing ... and he's a software guy, a programmer, not a hardware guy.

That there actually are such people in the gaggle of Nerds on the Innernets is kinda disturbing to me @.@

... what "such people" do you mean, Stahlseele ...?

Nerds.
On the Internet.
THAT HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT HOW COMPUTERS WORK! x.x

He's not the only one... Half of the components are pure eldritch speech to my ears, especially graphics cards! Have some bloody naming standards!
That said, I know where to put them and how to put them.

Pax... Would you buy a new car if the gearbox broke?

my mind just boggles at this paradox of NERDS ON THE INTERNET NOT KNOWING ABOUT THEIR COMPUTERS @.@

Not every "nerd" is a computer "nerd".

I'm a gaming geek - RPGs, video games, etc. I'm also a SF geek - Weber's Hnorverse is #1 with me.

I am not a computer geek, aside fromt eh fact that so many of my other geek-doms rely on the computer as a tool.






No. But I would, if the drive shaft fell out in traffic. (Which actually happened to my mother once. Universal joint had rotted through.)

Well, I'm so very fucking sorry I don't meet your standards of intelligence, or whatever. >_<

And people wondered why I feel like I've been put on the defensive ...?!

I find it quite simple. You equip your tinfoil bracelet to make sure you're not zappy, then put the thingie-mayig in the socket where it fits (usually there's only one) and connect the cables to the whathaveyonow.
Then you jump through hoops for a while with drivers and stuff, and voila! computer!
You need to know stuff like that to clean the computer anyway, learned that the hard way when my old processor had melded with the cooling unit (6 years with no new paste).
I just have someone that knows such things to tell me what thingie-mayigs are worthwhile, but Im learning, slowly.
Graphics cards are still a bloody mystery although...

Holy hell. Did I just drop into a 4chan or something?

Dang, in addition to a good number of nerds not really knowing anything about computers over half the people who claim to know, know less than half as much as they think they do and are right about even less than half than that.

Give him a break.

I'm a software guy, not hardware. Plus, software is easy to undo when you're setting up the computer ("restore to factory defaults").

But honestly, it wasn't too bad at all. I think there were like three programs which weren't necessary, and most of them were programs that were actually made to help non-techies manage their computers better. It's not like the days of Gateway with Vista, where I'd have to spend half an hour just uninstalling AOL trialware.



That's not true (as you yourself go on to list three more things, and I don't think that list is comprehensive). Worse, DIAGNOSING which part can be a total PITA.

Drivers too are tougher than you make it sound. I just installed my updated video drivers and it effectively shut down windows. That one was easy because I ONLY updated that one, so I could troubleshoot and roll back quickly. When there's six drivers between the plug and my screen, that's a LOT of troubleshooting.

Not saying it's a truly DIFFICULT task. And when it goes well, it's a beautiful thing. But when it goes balls up, it can tie you up for weeks.

There's Bronies here. Close enough.

I keep wondering that myself.

Seriously, please, just close the thread. Or better, delete it. Honestly if I could un-post it, at this point I would.

One thing's for sure: this is the last time I share anything not directly related to gaming, on this forum. >:(

I've never gone to that site, but from everything I've heard, I'm glad of this fact.

I think he was just goofing around about nerds and computers, not trying to say you are stupid or whatnot.

The stereotypical nerd could build a computer out of some tinfoil and coconuts, and then teleport the gang off of Gilligan's Island with the leftovers and such.

*Looks up from eating coconut* Do we have enough components yet?