What is MWO?

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=37935

I'd just never heard of it. Is it really that bad?

... bad? why do you say it's bad?

Granted, it's not something I happen to like. But it's hardly bad.

And recognising that a multi-monitor setup might enhance a game, shouldn't make it "Bad" either.

I asked if it was that bad because of the following quote:

You should have kept reading - only five posts further on, I then posted this:



Yes, the font-size was used in the original post, too. All I've done is cut-and-paste a quote-block. Just like you did.

More than that, I kinda stopped at the "this game is a pile of shit". Heh.

One should never form an opinion, with less than the whole of the information easily available to them.

I don't recall the last time I did NOT have two monitors (at home or at work). Almost never for games, except to leave chat/movie open in one screen while I play in the other. But for everything else. Movies and chat, giant project plans, copying data between documents, etc. About 60% of the time I'm using both. My wife, whose single screen is easily the size of my two work screens (and cost something like $2,000, compared to my $40) now also wants a second (normal) sized screen, for the same reason.

Your graphics card quite likely already supports this, if it was made in the past five years. I bought my screen used from a school for $20. They aren't too hard to find. Try it out. Assuming you have space on your desk, I don't think you'll ever go back.

Edit: Plus, screen radiation is how I maintain my healthy pallor. Double screens = double geek chic color.

Flat Screens don't have any meaningfull radiation anymore.
That went pretty much the way of the dodo with CRT-dispay.

But yes, i went to 2 screens 5 years ago and i am not looking back.
C³ is running on one and actual work/gaming/entertainment on the other.

I paid extra to get it as a feature with mine.

Well. Despite good past experiences with the OEM I ordered from, above .... they are so backlogged, and their communication with customers has degraded so badly ... that after a bloody month with no appreciable progress (nor even updates/emails) ... I've cancelled that order. Very disappointing.

Now to wait a week and a half for the refund to process, so I can place a new order with someone else. I'm currently looking at Puget computer; I'm still not confident enough to try assembling it myself, this time around. This time around:

• Motherboard: Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2.0
• CPU: AMD FX-8350 4GHzx8
• System RAM: Kingston, 16GB DDR3-2600 (4x4GB)
• Video card: AMD Radeon HD 7970, 3GB (single card this time)
• Sound Card: Asus Xonar DSX
• Other: Silverstone USB 3.0 controller, PCI-Express
• Primary Drive: Intel 520 SSD, 240GB
• Data Drive: Western Digital cavia Green, 3TB
• Optical Drive: Asus 12x BluRay burner
• Case: Antec P183 (Gunmetal finish, no side window)
• PSU: Seasonic X-850, 850W (80+ Platinum, yayy!)
• CPU Cooling: Puget Hydro CL3 liquid cooling (sealed system)
• Other cooling: case fans upgraded to Adjustable Speed; additional Chassis fan
• Case Mods: sound reduction materials; Cardkeeper retention package
• OS: Win7 Pro 64-bit

... for $2,931US, plus shipping.

I'll say again that I think liquid cooling is a waste. I tried it before and had no appreciable difference.

*shrug* It's a $22 difference from the Air-cooling option I'd've picked anyway.

Is it only $22? Huh. Crazy.

No, it's more than $22 total. It's just, that's the difference between the (sealed) system I picked, and the air-cooling setup I would otherwise have chosen.

Just itself, I think it's about seventy or eighty dollars.

It's not exactly this, but pretty close: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16835181015

Personally, not a big fan of the latest AMD offerings, i'd go with intel myself.
But not for the SSD, there i would chose a samsung one.
WHY the BluRay BURNER?
BluRay Blanks are still hellishly expensive and most players won't play them anyway in my experience.
The GPU is good, but i'd go for a 7970 GHz Edition, if possible. It's right now the single strongest GPU out there.
External SoundCard . . again, why? The onboard Cards are usually good enough for everything you want to do.
If the iquid cooling is only 22 bucks more, then yeah, i'd go for that too. Hell, even AIO WaterCooling is usually about twice to three times as expensive as an aircooler.
Having the case-fans at adjustable speeds will make one hell of a difference, both cooling and in noise, so good choice there.
The PSU may be 80+ platinum, but this only means it's at peak efficiency if it's at 80% load. Which you will be hard pressed to achieve most of the time anyway.
The silverstone USB3-Controller . . does the Board not come with USB3 by itself already? O.o

edit:
aaah, so it IS an AIO WaterCooler . .
These are, sadly, still a bit hit and miss <.<
The CONCEPT is pure genius . . but execution can be pretty poor x.x
The loudest part of these are usually not even the Fans you need to blow the air through the Radiator. It's usually the pump, sadly <.<

That BluRay drive I got (and bricked my old desktop installing), is a burner too. And the present came with a stack of 20 blank disks.

Anyway, I want it for archiving stuff. On as few disks as humanly possible. (For example, we have almost 16GB of photographs and video from our 2009 trip to Walt Disney World - which was 9 days, 8 nights. We're planning another trip there next January, 2014 ... for 16 days, 15 nights ... and I'll have a much better, HD-capable video camera, and we're bringing a friend with us; as a result, I expect to have 50, maybe 60 GB of video and photos. Maybe more, as I intend to "video blog" my trip, with daily installments, for a Disney-related forum I frequent.

And, well ... I'd like to be able to put all the video and stuff on fewer than five to eight disks, thanks. ;D


I would have, but Puget just doesn't have 'em.


I want it for the 7.1 Surround support. I already have my eye on a Logitech headset that supports 7.1, so ...


Puget calculates watt-usage as you go, actually. The calculator shows a peak usage of 600W even, so they recommended an 850W PSU. I probably could have gotten away with 750W, but the next-lower PSU Puget has is only 650W, and that's cutting it WAY too close - peak usage would be over 90% capacity. So, the extra 100W maximum capacity won't kill me.


It does ... but, two of the internal headers will be used up by the front panel (for only three USB3 ports, but *shrug* ...), so having an extra internal seemed prudent. Plus, and more importantly to me, it offers two more USB3 ports in the back: http://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/Controll...press-card-9044

The motherboard comes with 4 internal headers, and 4 rear USB3 ports (and an astonishign 8 internal USB2 headers!!): http://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/Motherbo...990FX-R2-0-9074

now ... I don't know if those four rear ports use any internal headers. If they do, likely 1 header per 2 ports (to match what the front panel needs) ... then without he card, I'd have zero unoccupied USB3 headers, but with it, I'll have 1. Meanwhile, I'll have 6 rear and 3 front USB3 connectors, which should cover my needs for a good 6-8 years, with a nice comfortable bit of wiggle-room, if you will. And at only $38, I'm not terribly worried about the price.


AIO = All-in-One? If so - that's the only kind of liquid cooling I'd be comfortable with, just now. Don't want to have to be checking coolant levels, not to mention storing coolant with three cats in the house, and probably (knowing my luck inside computer cases) spilling some when trying to refill, gah.

Anyway, it's a Puget-branded unit, based on a CoolIT model: http://www.pugetsystems.com/parts/CPU-Cool...ing-System-7617

Yes, AIO=All-In-One WaterCooling.
And yes, if it's a CoolIT, then it is exactly the same as the Corsair ones with the square Cooling/Pump-Unit.
Because they are just rebranded CoolIT too.
And yes, i know what you mean with being comfortable with that.
I worked in a Computer BuyAndRepairShop for some weeks while in School, and i had THREE Computers with busted Watercooling on my Desk in that Time alone . .

i was dumb enough to not check wether or not my computers case comes with a cut out on the mainbaord try so i don't have to remove the whole board to change the cpu cooler . .
if the cut-out for a back-plate were there, i'd have gotten an Corsair H100 long ago, because my Q9650(still socket 775) goes up to 110° Celsius und a Gaming-Spree with the Intel Standard Cooler.
i am too damn lazy to change it like this <.<

and i am hoping SOMEBODY will make a GPU of the 7970GHz or an OCed GTX680 Series with the Arctic Accelero Hybrid, because that's an AIO for GraphicsCards.

Terabyte-range HDDs are quite cheap.

And not so portable from one PC to another. Just in this house, we have ... um ... let's see, two desktops, three laptops, one ultrabook, one tablet, one tablet-ish eReader, three iPod touches.

And then there's that friend of mine. I'd love to be able to just hand her a disk and say "there, that's every picture or video any of the four of us took. Enjoy yourself!"

I would upgrade to THAT, in a frelling heartbeat. I'd burn $100 or so, if it were possible right now, even.

I can, have, and pre-Bricking regularly did do marathon 6+ hour gaming sessions, with everything dialled up as high as my old GTX 275 could handle. And heat was always an issue int eh back of my mind ... cooling is one place I am willin to say "there is no such thing as oberbuilt".

Kind of like Maxim 34: "There is no such thing as Overkill; there is only Open fire and Time to reload".

Also, "If you're leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun." Forget which maxim that one is ...

Yeah, an AIO for CPU and one for GPU would be pretty boss.
And the cooler keeps the card about 5 to 10° celsius cooler than most aircoolers do.
AND is much much quieter to boot!

A friend of mine recommended Maingear as the folks he has build his machines. He had a bum video card ship with his, which they were on the ball about fixing (overnighted a brand new card to him) so you may wanna take a look at pricing one out with them as well.

External Hard Drives are great items to have!

*nods*
i just bought a 2.5" 2TB HDD for a buddy as a birthday present . . might buy one for me myself too . .

I`d still go with the Intel line. Don´t worry too much about the PSU load, once that is "high enough" efficiency does not vary much.

Okay, I just have to say this: the people at Puget Systems are Awesome Incarnate.

See, with the first OEM - iBuyPower - communication was nearly zero, and progress was indistinguishable from zero. It took them eight calendar days from teh moment they had all $3.5K of my money, to even start "gathering materials". Then, after thirteen more days of no progress at all, I finally cancelled the order entirely. I mean, I get that it's not an instantaneous process, I get that they had a holiday rush to work through, but still ... enough was in fact more than enough.

So, the moment the refund processed (thankfully, with more alacrity than the actual order had shown), I went to my #2 choice, Puget systems.

Night. And. Day.

They promise to answer emails within 24 hours "except weekends and holidays"; I sent them a query yesterday ... yep, a weekend. I didn't expect an answer before Monday evening or Tuesday lunchtime, here on the East Coast. I got an answer only a few hours later. After a brief back-and-forth, things were completely set up this morning, and I made the payments.

And by "completely set up", by the way, I mean "better than I'd ever expected". Not only did he give me the split-payment I needed (curse those daily limits), but he went over my build, and realised I really really want the computer ASAP. So instead of overnight-air delivery, he suggested second-day air ... saving enough money to overnight in the two parts they didn't have in stock, and then gave me Rush Service as pretty much a courtesy - explaining that doing so would shave 3 days off the build time, and in net, get the computer in my hands 2 days faster.

And finally, in response to my "hey, thanks for being so awesome" email? The last sentence of his answer to that, was: "That will have a link where you can follow along as we build the system, and then we'll send you pictures and tracking info once it is done and ships out."

Follow along? Pictures ...?

Okay. Unless the machine itself is somehow pure junk, that's it .... customer loyalty, secured. It will hopefully be eight or nine years before I want to buy a ground-up new PC again, but Puget has now moved to #1 position on my list of vendors to get it from.

... their Order Status page is awesome. It tracks the status of each component, hardware and software alike. So, at a glance, I know that the computer is completely assembled physically, awaiting only the OS and a few other software installs I asked for. There is a very real possibility I will have my computer here, set up and operating, by Friday evening! If not then, I should have it by Monday or Tuesday of next week - barring any unforseen difficulties, like a component failure during testing.

good luck

Been reading this with interest for a few days now,

first off : all the bests with that beautiful machine , Intel would blaze but AMD is good for the top of budget.

If I wasn't so bloody minded and tedious, I'd always pay someone to build my machines rather than buy branded

the choice of components makes it much more "My Machine" than some Compaq I bought from PC World, and it's still under warranty.

for example here is the beauty I built a couple years back, completely outdated now dammit I wanna spend cash for an upgrade

[img]http://a.imageshack.us/img830/1159/img0269sq.jpg[/img]

the build log is here if you're interested in WHY TO NEVER DO THIS EVER!
cause it can go horribly horribly wrong

Overclockers UK - build log

No embedding Pictures on Dumpshock

wondered why it didn't work

i posted soemthing when they had it activated accidentally, shortly thereafter it was shut off again ^^
also:
way too much work in that project of yours . .
and 2 GPU's more than i want in mine . .
but i am thinking of going full corsair as far as possible with my next one . .
So, Corsair 800D, Corsair PSU semi active cooling, Corsair RAM, Corsair AIO Water-Cooler, Corsair Link, Corsair SSD . .
Only MB, CPU and GPU won't be Corsair . .
Maybe one or two HDD's and Optical drive too . .

Corsair makes GOOD stuff !

Multi GPU at the time was the best way for me, I only wish I had gotten the 2GB RAM GPU's though as they would have scaled better.

My next build will be Intel & Nvidia, the mix just seems to be more supported in modern gaming, no political reasons for one over the other

and I think I'll stay Air cooled Water has been fun, but it's high maintenance .. unless I get an AIO.

and for info ... if you guys have played MWO and didn't like it .. are any of you on MW Living Legends ? it is AWESOME !

Yes, i have been with MWLL from 0.1.0
If you search around, you will notice me having opened the MWLL Thread here some years back.
And now MWO killed it off these bastards <.<
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=29288

if i can get a GPU with pre-installed for warranty AIO water-cooling, i will go to both GPU water cooling and CPU water cooling.

Puget also takes pictures, and posts them for their customers to see (and download). I've put all of them in their own Photobucket album.

On the topic of cooling, or not, though, the two Thermal images are of expecial relevance.

This is the system at Idle;

This is the system under full load.

In the Load image, you can actually see the RAM sticks warming up (thin greenish lines to the right of the water-block). You can also see that teh GPU is pretty much the only appreciable heat source still inside the case.

So, yeah. A nice upgrade for me, would be to go with an AIO liquid cooled video card. Probably have to shift the CPU radiator to teh top vent (there IS a fan there, already), and put the video-card radiator where the CPU one is now.

...

And, I caved in to my impatience. I'll be upgrading to overnight shipping, with Saturday delivery. Tomorrow, my shiny new Prreciousss *gollum* will arrive! ~_^

Keep in mind, both NVidia and AMD offer two-GPU-on-one-card versions of their current top-end processors. GTX 690 for NVidia, Radeon HD 7990 for AMD.

And the NVidia one, at least, I've seen with pre-installed AIO liquid cooling.

show me one please?
and i don't want more than one GPU in my case.
especially now that the titan card has been announced.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon...70-x2,3329.html


Not AIO, but it is a liquid-cooled GTX 690: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130803

1. Link:
Which one of these is AIO Water-Cooled?

2. Link:
No AIO, no Water-Cool for me.
I don't want more than one GPU in my System, but if the only card i can get with an AIO-Water-Cooling Solution is a Double GPU Card, then yes, i'd probably buy one just because . .

Neither. I wasn't sure what exactly you wanted to be shown. I can't find any video cards with an AIO system pre-installed, but then, I'm not exactly searchign high and low for them. You got two google searches out of me. That's the limit, without delivery of chocolate or some such.

Possibly you'd have to mount the AIO to the GPU yourself. I wouldn't even know where to BEGIN looking for compatible AIO kits to do that with, however.


Out of curiousity ... why not? I mean, I can understand (and agree) if it's "they're too expensive", but that will probably change in a year or two. OTOH, if there's a reason other than cost, I'd be interested to hear it.

1st
they are too expensive
2nd
they don't scale as well as people believe, if you are really unlucky, you get 50% more power out of a 2nd GPU . .
3rd
you need profiles for games and in some cases even normal programs to make use of the 2nd GPU. without such profiles, the performance can actually be below 100% of a single GPU, because the computer has to do extra work to not make th game crash by keeping the 2nd GPU out of things . .
4th
they get way hotter than a single GPU and thus require more and louder cooling, which is a no no for me in terms of performance rating and i don't want a complete water cooling solution . . AIO is the closest i am willing to go to water cooled components.
5th
in addition and related to this is the need for more power from the PSU/wall socket/outlet, which means i need a bigger and more expensive and hotter PSU and thus more cooling needed on the PSU too.
6th
even if it DOES, indeed, work as perfect as it can work, i am sensitive enough to notice the micro-stuttering . . yes, i have tried it both with an SLI-System with 2x8800GTX and with one ATI Radeon 4870x2 Card.
So it's a complete waste of money in my eyes, because i tend to have more problems for more money spent . .

That cooling system looks sweet. How much noise reduction do you get from that setup?

1-5 I chalk up to personal taste. 6, however, makes the aversion completely understandable.

IOW, "aha, NOW I grok."

How's 1-5 personal taste?
More cumbersome, expensive and power hungry seem like legit concerns to me...

They're not rooted in a medical / physiological cause.

Obviously, if those things were universally inferior, they simply wouldn't still be on the market. Someone out there must think that double-GPU setups are worth the weight, heat, power consumption, price, and so forth.

Choosing to favor lower-heat, lower-power-needs, lower price over however much or little performance boost the setup gives you, is just that, a choice.

Whereas, being able to perceive (and be put off by) levels of microstutter, that most people can't? There's no choice with that. Either you're born with the nerve clusters needed to do so, or you're not.



It's like, for me? The old-style red/blue 3D gave me splitting headaches - a fact I unhappily discovered when I was at Disney World, as a fourteen year old boy. Thus, if that was the only 3D option out there, I would pass on 3D altogether.

Luckily - and I have NFC why - but polarisation style 3D doesn't do teh same thing. Oh, my eyes are a bit more tired after a 2-3 horu stint than normal (much more pronouncedly so if I don't wear my normal glasses underneath the 3D glasses). But, no headaches ... thank the gods.

But, see ... my preference for Polarisation-based 3D, over red/blue filter based 3D? Is not a matter of personal taste ... it's a medical and physiological imperative: one costs me pain, the other doesn't, and thank you but I'll pass on the pain.

Hence why I grok Stahl's #6: one causes him discomfort, the other doesn't, and thank you but he'll pass on that discomfort.

See, that's why I don't get. Why isn't things like resource conservation and environmental thinking part of the equation?
A higher power demand does not only mean a higher electrical bill, it also means that the power demand increases, sure there is excess energy today... But if everyone share the same line of thinking, that excess won't be enough.
I bit off colour maybe, but that kind of thinking gets poisonous very quickly, it's not just personal taste.
Especially when the gain is quite negligible and ridden with it's own issues.

I didn't say they weren't.

Some people prefer to conserve resources, protect the environment, and so on.

Some people prefer to have the most bleeding-edge powerful computer possible.

Which side of that you fall on, is personal preference. Getting the super-powerful components, or, getting the "Greener" components, is a choice.

Whereas, headaches from red/blue filter 3D, or discomfort from microstutter ... those are physiological things. There's no choice involved at all.

See how that works?

Don't want to start an enviromental debate... Yes, green thinking is a choice... Right now, it won't be for much longer. I personally think that attitude stinks, but let's just leave it at that. Not the time or place.