Capacity on Imaging Scopes, SR4a Options

[DnDer]

Picked up a sniper rifle, that comes with imaging scope attached. An imaging scope (322) says that is can be upgraded with any of the enhancements for optical devices (333).

Am I able to pick up 2 scopes: 1 with digital magnification, flare comp, and thermal -- and it's brother, the same with night vision?

I may have missed it, but I don't see how much "capacity" an imaging scope has on the book tables.

[All4BigGuns]

Picked up a sniper rifle, that comes with imaging scope attached. An imaging scope (322) says that is can be upgraded with any of the enhancements for optical devices (333).

Am I able to pick up 2 scopes: 1 with digital magnification, flare comp, and thermal -- and it's brother, the same with night vision?

I may have missed it, but I don't see how much "capacity" an imaging scope has on the book tables.

What's the rating of the scope? I'd imagine that would be the capacity since it is for goggles/glasses/contacts.

[DnDer]

It has no rating listed on 322 in the table, or in the description, and 332 says that the rating of devices like goggles is equal to the number of enhancements you can add. The imaging scope has no "Rating x $" entry.

[All4BigGuns]

I don't ever bother with scopes, so I didn't know. I generally just have that stuff either in contacts and glasses/goggles or in cyber eyes.

Though since most electronics are assumed to have Device Rating 3 if none is given, it would be a good supposition.

[Lionhearted]

Just pure handwavium, I would treat it as an a similar device (like plain binoculars) with a rating of Cost/(cost of rating/2). the ½ is because its made to fit on a scope and binoculars/goggles are not.
So with some handwavium! Capacity 3. You could just put the vision magnification on your cybereyes/goggles instead and not bother with the scope.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

I normally install magnification and low-light in smartgun-cameras, because i can stay behind cover and only have to expose the gun.

[All4BigGuns]

Just pure handwavium, I would treat it as an a similar device (like plain binoculars) with a rating of Cost/(cost of rating/2). the ½ is because its made to fit on a scope and binoculars/goggles are not.
So with some handwavium! Capacity 3. You could just put the vision magnification on your cybereyes/goggles instead and not bother with the scope.

Capacity 3 is what it would have assuming the normal Device Rating 3 that electronics are assumed to have if none is listed... No so-called "handwavium" required.

[_Pax._]

Am I able to pick up 2 scopes: 1 with digital magnification, flare comp, and thermal -- and it's brother, the same with night vision?

.... yes, and to make this work especially well, you will want to modify the gun itself with a Powered Slide Mount (Capacity 1). That woudl let you ho-swap the two scopes in minimum time. That modification woudl let you detach one scope with a simple action, then attach the other with a simple action as well.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

Still learning these things, common sense is a good stand-in while you try unravel the unwired mess of cords... With no unwired and the old core book.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

@powered slide mount: And cost about 1-2 times the amount of the weapon (unless its a barret or such a thing).

[DnDer]

Unfortunately, it's the base Ranger Arms from the SR4a book, for my unaugmented Russian intelligence officer.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Get an external smartgun and smart goggles - then upgrade the camera in the smartgun with the mods you like.

ext. Smartgun System: 400nY
Camera Rtg. 3: 300nY
Thermal & Low-Light Vision: 200nY
Magnification: 100nY

[Lionhearted]

Still think you should reconsider that, there's very little point in being non-magical and non-augmented.
If you see essence for what it is, a balancing tool for magic vs machine. Chrome just deducts a number you have no use for otherwise. If your concern is stealth. Bio is virtually undetectable and Alphaware have some chance of not tripping the scanners.

[_Pax._]

@powered slide mount: And cost about 1-2 times the amount of the weapon (unless its a barret or such a thing).

Not true.

A Capacity 1 Powered Slide Mount costs 3,500¥. Since we're talking about sniper rifles ...

Walther MA-2100, availability 10F; 5,000¥
Shiawase Arms Police REsponse, availability 12F; 6,100¥
HK PSG Enforcer, availability 12F; 4,800¥
Ares Desert Strike, availability 10F; 3,350¥

Only one of those costs less than or equal to the slide mount. And if you take Restricted Gear to get one of the higher-availability weapons, none of those costs less ... indeed, only one of them costs less than TWICE the slide mount.

[DnDer]

Still think you should reconsider that, there's very little point in being non-magical and non-augmented.
If you see essence for what it is, a balancing tool for magic vs machine. Chrome just deducts a number you have no use for otherwise. If your concern is stealth. Bio is virtually undetectable and Alphaware have some chance of not tripping the scanners.

It's not elitism anymore. It's a lack of funds. I'm looking at bioware suites in the future, though, because I know they're lower profile.

I did, as recommended, pick up the datajack for the linguasofts that will come in handy.

[_Pax._]

Still think you should reconsider that, there's very little point in being non-magical and non-augmented.

... except, you know, roleplaying.

[Tias]

Considering you can stuff 3 capacity worth of enhancements into contact lenses, I'd let characters put as many enhancements they want into their sights(within reason).

Given the level of miniaturization possible in the sixth world, I'd say 3 vision modes (besides regular optics) are quite fair game.

[Lionhearted]

... except, you know, roleplaying.

Why does roleplaying always seem to equate with intentionally weakening yourself and disregarding aspects the game was originally designed around?
That you can be a complete mundane in Shadowrun, doesn't mean that the system is built around supporting such characters and ignoring that for the sake of "good roleplay". For me it just seem like willfully hampering yourself in some sort of rampant anti-munchkinism.

[_Pax._]

Why does roleplaying always seem to equate with intentionally weakening yourself and disregarding aspects the game was originally designed around?
That you can be a complete mundane in Shadowrun, doesn't mean that the system is built around supporting such characters and ignoring that for the sake of "good roleplay". For me it just seem like willfully hampering yourself in some sort of rampant anti-munchkinism.

You do not HAVE to be either a chromed-to-the-gills cyborg, or a glows-like-a-christmas-tree mage or adept, in shadowrun. Nor a communes-with-computers technomancer, for that matter.

It's entirely possible to make a viable character with little or no augments, and little or no magic, but lots of good equipment. A typical, bog-standard HAcker is a classic example of this.

[Lionhearted]

Didn't say chromed to the teeth, even the bog standard hacker benefits greatly from a couple pieces of ware.
I'm saying that boneheaded purism, is outright detrimental to a character. Especially if you want to do any kind of fighting.

[_Pax._]

You do not have to be the absolute best you possibly could be, to be a viable character.

[Lionhearted]

That is true.
However, if you're purposefully hampering your potential when you could better at something. Especially when doing so have no negative repercussion.
How can you reasonably justify that without resorting to "Because I choose to"?

[Udoshi]

Capacity 3 is what it would have assuming the normal Device Rating 3 that electronics are assumed to have if none is listed... No so-called "handwavium" required.

This is the easiest way to do it.

This rules issue arises because in SR4, the capacity/accessory limit didn't exist. Cameras having capacity and ratings was added in 4A, and all the other things dependant on it (such as smartlinks and imaging scopes) weren't updated. Previously you could just have anything on anything.

The easiest way to fix the issue is to say the Device Rating 3 thing applies for the accessory limit too.

[DnDer]

Even if I don't chrome, I am by no means hamstringing myself for the sake of roleplaying. Our group has plenty of other people who are perfectly competent at <pick a skill that's not magic>. My entire role is supplemental, and as a liason between NPC and the rest of the PCs. I don't need to be on-par with the other characters right now.

Our GM is, hopefully (and such has been my impression) throwing softballs until the new players get used to SR as a genre and as a system. It's giving me the chance to explore a route that I haven't before: that of the unaugmented. I will confess that I do have a bias against chrome, in general. I've almost always ended up some kind of mage, all the way back to SR2. But I've put in my time as a decker, and once as a chromed combat monster.

Also: I don't see chrome as being either detrimental or positive to a character. After all, the B&E specialist? He's got a toolkit of gadgets, and might never even need a comlink to crack doors, when a screwdriver and wirecutters will do just as fine, as an example. The private eye doesn't need to be an occult investigator or a walking CSI lab with mass spectrometer built into his eyes in order to solve a mystery.

I'm on the other side of Lionheaterd's coin. I believe that chrome (and especially magic, but that's not germane to the conversation right this second) is an easy button. Why bother working at something when you can just buy the latest upgrade pack, right?

I'm doing this: to balance the team, because I don't believe chrome is necessary (but it certainly helps, I admit), and because I just plain don't have the cash on hand to do it right now. This doesn't have to be some big discussion about archetypes and gameplay paradigms. Me? I like my games closer to the pavement, like Blade Runner. I'm carrying a sniper rifle as a nod to the fact that the game I'm in is a little more mohawk than I remember playing.

But it's discussions like these where there were accusations of, "If you don't x, then you're just being a gimp for no reason other than to roleplay!" and, "Nu-uh! You're just an OP combat junkie who doesn't get the metagame!" flying around that made me walk from OWoD. Let's not be Those Guys, okay?

I just wanted to know what I could pack into my sniper rifle to make it the best it could be, out of the SR4a box. I appreciate the feedback on that part. Let's keep the character design theory in another thread, maybe?

[bannockburn]

I just wanted to know what I could pack into my sniper rifle to make it the best it could be, out of the SR4a box. I appreciate the feedback on that part. Let's keep the character design theory in another thread, maybe?

Easy, don't take a sniper rifle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
You could even lose the long arms skill entirely and take a battle rifle instead.
Buuuuut ... well, SR4a is a requirement, right? Doesn't leave many options, tbh.
Sniper rifles bring all kinds of problems, but good upgrades are, in my opinion:

• Scope with Vision Magnification, Vision Enhancement and Low Light vision (If you're going with the advised rating 3, although I see no reason to. Just pay for all the upgrades you want.)
• External Smartlink (and of course smart in your goggles / glasses / contacts), although caveat: You cannot use the smartlink and the scope at the same time for boni or nullifying range penalty
• Bipod, because flavour
• Silencer
• Shock pad, because flavour.
• Skinlink

I would buy the accessories and two guns, one Walter MA-2100 (because that's the only actual sniper rifle a starting character is allowed without restricted gear quality) and one Ruger 100 sporting rifle (because those are basically legal and additionally cheap)

Should you, at some point, gain access to Arsenal, I'd go for a AM-884 Battle Rifle with Bipod, Stock, Shock Pad, Barrel Extension and easy manual breakdown for everyday duty and an Ares Desert Strike for really sniping. Provided you're going to specialize in this direction further.