Picked up a sniper rifle, that comes with imaging scope attached. An imaging scope (322) says that is can be upgraded with any of the enhancements for optical devices (333).

Am I able to pick up 2 scopes: 1 with digital magnification, flare comp, and thermal -- and it's brother, the same with night vision?

I may have missed it, but I don't see how much "capacity" an imaging scope has on the book tables.

What's the rating of the scope? I'd imagine that would be the capacity since it is for goggles/glasses/contacts.

It has no rating listed on 322 in the table, or in the description, and 332 says that the rating of devices like goggles is equal to the number of enhancements you can add. The imaging scope has no "Rating x $" entry.

I don't ever bother with scopes, so I didn't know. I generally just have that stuff either in contacts and glasses/goggles or in cyber eyes.

Though since most electronics are assumed to have Device Rating 3 if none is given, it would be a good supposition.

Just pure handwavium, I would treat it as an a similar device (like plain binoculars) with a rating of Cost/(cost of rating/2). the ½ is because its made to fit on a scope and binoculars/goggles are not.
So with some handwavium! Capacity 3. You could just put the vision magnification on your cybereyes/goggles instead and not bother with the scope.

I normally install magnification and low-light in smartgun-cameras, because i can stay behind cover and only have to expose the gun.

Capacity 3 is what it would have assuming the normal Device Rating 3 that electronics are assumed to have if none is listed... No so-called "handwavium" required.

.... yes, and to make this work especially well, you will want to modify the gun itself with a Powered Slide Mount (Capacity 1). That woudl let you ho-swap the two scopes in minimum time. That modification woudl let you detach one scope with a simple action, then attach the other with a simple action as well.

Still learning these things, common sense is a good stand-in while you try unravel the unwired mess of cords... With no unwired and the old core book.

@powered slide mount: And cost about 1-2 times the amount of the weapon (unless its a barret or such a thing).

Unfortunately, it's the base Ranger Arms from the SR4a book, for my unaugmented Russian intelligence officer.

Get an external smartgun and smart goggles - then upgrade the camera in the smartgun with the mods you like.

ext. Smartgun System: 400nY
Camera Rtg. 3: 300nY
Thermal & Low-Light Vision: 200nY
Magnification: 100nY

Still think you should reconsider that, there's very little point in being non-magical and non-augmented.
If you see essence for what it is, a balancing tool for magic vs machine. Chrome just deducts a number you have no use for otherwise. If your concern is stealth. Bio is virtually undetectable and Alphaware have some chance of not tripping the scanners.

Not true.

A Capacity 1 Powered Slide Mount costs 3,500¥. Since we're talking about sniper rifles ...

Walther MA-2100, availability 10F; 5,000¥
Shiawase Arms Police REsponse, availability 12F; 6,100¥
HK PSG Enforcer, availability 12F; 4,800¥
Ares Desert Strike, availability 10F; 3,350¥

Only one of those costs less than or equal to the slide mount. And if you take Restricted Gear to get one of the higher-availability weapons, none of those costs less ... indeed, only one of them costs less than TWICE the slide mount.

It's not elitism anymore. It's a lack of funds. I'm looking at bioware suites in the future, though, because I know they're lower profile.

I did, as recommended, pick up the datajack for the linguasofts that will come in handy.

... except, you know, roleplaying.

Considering you can stuff 3 capacity worth of enhancements into contact lenses, I'd let characters put as many enhancements they want into their sights(within reason).

Given the level of miniaturization possible in the sixth world, I'd say 3 vision modes (besides regular optics) are quite fair game.

Why does roleplaying always seem to equate with intentionally weakening yourself and disregarding aspects the game was originally designed around?
That you can be a complete mundane in Shadowrun, doesn't mean that the system is built around supporting such characters and ignoring that for the sake of "good roleplay". For me it just seem like willfully hampering yourself in some sort of rampant anti-munchkinism.

You do not HAVE to be either a chromed-to-the-gills cyborg, or a glows-like-a-christmas-tree mage or adept, in shadowrun. Nor a communes-with-computers technomancer, for that matter.

It's entirely possible to make a viable character with little or no augments, and little or no magic, but lots of good equipment. A typical, bog-standard HAcker is a classic example of this.

Didn't say chromed to the teeth, even the bog standard hacker benefits greatly from a couple pieces of ware.
I'm saying that boneheaded purism, is outright detrimental to a character. Especially if you want to do any kind of fighting.

You do not have to be the absolute best you possibly could be, to be a viable character.

That is true.
However, if you're purposefully hampering your potential when you could better at something. Especially when doing so have no negative repercussion.
How can you reasonably justify that without resorting to "Because I choose to"?

This is the easiest way to do it.

This rules issue arises because in SR4, the capacity/accessory limit didn't exist. Cameras having capacity and ratings was added in 4A, and all the other things dependant on it (such as smartlinks and imaging scopes) weren't updated. Previously you could just have anything on anything.

The easiest way to fix the issue is to say the Device Rating 3 thing applies for the accessory limit too.

Even if I don't chrome, I am by no means hamstringing myself for the sake of roleplaying. Our group has plenty of other people who are perfectly competent at <pick a skill that's not magic>. My entire role is supplemental, and as a liason between NPC and the rest of the PCs. I don't need to be on-par with the other characters right now.

Our GM is, hopefully (and such has been my impression) throwing softballs until the new players get used to SR as a genre and as a system. It's giving me the chance to explore a route that I haven't before: that of the unaugmented. I will confess that I do have a bias against chrome, in general. I've almost always ended up some kind of mage, all the way back to SR2. But I've put in my time as a decker, and once as a chromed combat monster.

Also: I don't see chrome as being either detrimental or positive to a character. After all, the B&E specialist? He's got a toolkit of gadgets, and might never even need a comlink to crack doors, when a screwdriver and wirecutters will do just as fine, as an example. The private eye doesn't need to be an occult investigator or a walking CSI lab with mass spectrometer built into his eyes in order to solve a mystery.

I'm on the other side of Lionheaterd's coin. I believe that chrome (and especially magic, but that's not germane to the conversation right this second) is an easy button. Why bother working at something when you can just buy the latest upgrade pack, right?

I'm doing this: to balance the team, because I don't believe chrome is necessary (but it certainly helps, I admit), and because I just plain don't have the cash on hand to do it right now. This doesn't have to be some big discussion about archetypes and gameplay paradigms. Me? I like my games closer to the pavement, like Blade Runner. I'm carrying a sniper rifle as a nod to the fact that the game I'm in is a little more mohawk than I remember playing.

But it's discussions like these where there were accusations of, "If you don't x, then you're just being a gimp for no reason other than to roleplay!" and, "Nu-uh! You're just an OP combat junkie who doesn't get the metagame!" flying around that made me walk from OWoD. Let's not be Those Guys, okay?

I just wanted to know what I could pack into my sniper rifle to make it the best it could be, out of the SR4a box. I appreciate the feedback on that part. Let's keep the character design theory in another thread, maybe?

Easy, don't take a sniper rifle
You could even lose the long arms skill entirely and take a battle rifle instead.
Buuuuut ... well, SR4a is a requirement, right? Doesn't leave many options, tbh.
Sniper rifles bring all kinds of problems, but good upgrades are, in my opinion:

• Scope with Vision Magnification, Vision Enhancement and Low Light vision (If you're going with the advised rating 3, although I see no reason to. Just pay for all the upgrades you want.)
• External Smartlink (and of course smart in your goggles / glasses / contacts), although caveat: You cannot use the smartlink and the scope at the same time for boni or nullifying range penalty
• Bipod, because flavour
• Silencer
• Shock pad, because flavour.
• Skinlink

I would buy the accessories and two guns, one Walter MA-2100 (because that's the only actual sniper rifle a starting character is allowed without restricted gear quality) and one Ruger 100 sporting rifle (because those are basically legal and additionally cheap)

Should you, at some point, gain access to Arsenal, I'd go for a AM-884 Battle Rifle with Bipod, Stock, Shock Pad, Barrel Extension and easy manual breakdown for everyday duty and an Ares Desert Strike for really sniping. Provided you're going to specialize in this direction further.

I have yet to find a time where 10-12 Dice is not enough. And my purely Mundane (No Cyber/Bio/Magic) Mercenary works just fine at that point.
Fine enough that he has over 50 Skills to choose from. *shrug*



It is not hampering a character to ignore Augments/Magic. I see it as a viable choice. *shrug* In my opinion, the "negative repercussion" for such a character is actually having such things. If I am trying to make a character that lacks such augments, it is because the character believes that he does not need them. There are a myriad of ways to "Justify" that decision.

That argument irks me to an unbelievable degree. Two extremes, neither is correct.
The second one gets to me because it's a reactionary antithesis that follows very corrupt logic. Something like.
Munchkin don't care for RP, only power.
Therefore munchkin is detrimental to RP
Therefore I must distance myself from anything that makes my character powerful.


Agreed, I apologise for the derail.

I think something to keep in mind, is that each enhancement to the scope will add to the Availability, so if you add too many high-avail enhancements, you can push the scope above Avail 12. That might be another limiting factor on how many you can add to the scope.

... and if the character sees negative repercussions from teh act of being augmented?

Look; as much as I like to juggle the numbers around, and come up with really really good-at-what-they-do characters? I also have to respect people who approach the process "character first", and then shape the numbers to fit that as best they can. And I can readily see someone wanting to make a non-magic, non-technomancer, "anti augment" character.

Who doesn't need to be gimped; they just need to be built to best take advantage of non-augmented and non-magical resources.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two archetypes most able to do without any augmentations: Hackers (who can use 'trodes instead of a datajack) and remote-control Riggers.

Very true. Flare Comp, any kind of Magnification, and Thermographics pushes a scope to Availability 13.

Which is why Thermo is one of the vision mods I'm most willing to do without if I'm not using cyber eyes. (Another benefit to cyber eyes, the mods don't affect the implant's availability)

The real question is why are you using an imaging scope when you can use an external smartlink?
It, too, can take vision mods. Just put Vision Magnification on it and call it a scope.

Tiny nitpick, but the AM-884 Mondragón BR is in "War!" not Arsenal. Arsenal does not have battle rifles.

Good point
I wanted to illustrate the possibilities for modifications, though, which probably didn't get across

Ever tried using those glasses in an area that has electronics jammed? an Analog scope with Analog versions of those mods has some decent uses as a "just in case" accessory.

Sure, just carry a 1m fiber-optic cable with you - or use induction pads. And if you mean EMP-Shocks or such, your analog low-light or thermographic also just died.

Electronic noise doesn't mean diddly over squat, if your gear is all skinlinked.

What's a battlerifle?
The name implies... lot of dakka!

In modern terms: The M4 (5.56x45) is an assault Rifle, the M14 (7.62x51) a battle rifle.

A Battle Rifle is an Up-caliber Assault Rifle.
Heavier Frame, Heavier Bullet.

In SR terms it means a weapon which on average is about 7P/-1AP while assault rifles are on average 6P/-1AP.

Not to forget different ranges, which makes the HM versions very good sniper rifles, IMO. Provided you have the Automatics skill.

Unfortunately it's just power creep in regards to the BF/FA versions, and it's in that book. ^^

Or if you use a houserule that weapons are lumped under a one-handed skill and a two-handed skill. Then battle rifles are the same skill as sniper rifles.

... and just make "automatics" a specialization of Pistols and Longarms.

Something for the wish-thread, then

We run with firearms divided into Pistols/Longarms as skills with the skill used based on the number of hands you are reasonably using to fire the weapon, so SMGs fall under both depending on if you're using 1 or 2 hands.

Each weapon category then is its own specialization under it.
Longarms (Submachine Guns, Assault Rifles, Shotguns, Battle Rifles, Sport Rifles, Sniper Rifles)
Pistols (Tasers, Light Pistol, Heavy Pistol, Machine Pistol, Submachine Gun)

It's saner than the default current skill/specialization setup especially with how different pistols behaves compared to automatics or longarms.

Where do light machine guns fall into? Longarms or Heavy Weapons?

LMG's are Heavy Weapons.

Hm, i meant StealthSigma and his Houserule. Because lMGs and Assault/Battle rifles are not that different.

I only said the houserule changed pistols/automatics/longarms into two skills. Heavy weapons would still be heavy weapons.

We do apply a second houserule that I don't necessarily agree with mostly because it thins out a skill that probably doesn't need it. Heavy weapons is split into launcher based weapons (rockets, missiles, grenade launchers) and non-launchers (assault cannons and machine guns).