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> "Take Aim" Clarification, Sniper Rifles and Magnification
DnDer
post Jan 6 2013, 08:49 AM
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This should be pretty easy.

Rules say that you can only "take aim" equal to half your relevant firearms skill. Sniper rifles using vision magnification must use a "take aim" action just to lock onto a target before they can shoot, but CAN take multiple "take aim" actions for the bonus.

For this example, we'll say my Longarms skill is 6.

I want to snipe someone with vision magnification. I may only use 3 "take aim" actions to accumulate the bonus associated with the action. Does the "take aim" action required by the vision magnification count as 1/3 of those actions? Or is it the bonus merely max out at half your skill, no matter how many "take aim" actions you use? (ie, I can take 100 "take aim" actions, but will never get more than +3, for my example.)
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 6 2013, 08:58 AM
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I think it is the latter
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Glyph
post Jan 6 2013, 10:17 AM
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The rules support the former interpretation - it talks about how many sequential take aim actions you can take, rather than the bonus.
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Dakka Dakka
post Jan 6 2013, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 6 2013, 09:49 AM) *
Sniper rifles using vision magnification must use a "take aim" action just to lock onto a target before they can shoot, but CAN take multiple "take aim" actions for the bonus.
Not quite. With sniper rifles or any other form of image magnification, you need to use the take aim action to zoom in on the target (i.e. remove range penalties). You can always shoot without taking aim and incurring the appropriate range penalty.

QUOTE (DnDer @ Jan 6 2013, 09:49 AM) *
I want to snipe someone with vision magnification. I may only use 3 "take aim" actions to accumulate the bonus associated with the action. Does the "take aim" action required by the vision magnification count as 1/3 of those actions? Or is it the bonus merely max out at half your skill, no matter how many "take aim" actions you use? (ie, I can take 100 "take aim" actions, but will never get more than +3, for my example.)
The former is the case. The number of take aim actions, not the bonus, is limited to half the skill. Don't forget that DP modifiers do not raise that limit, but skill modifiers do.
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Lionhearted
post Jan 6 2013, 02:12 PM
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Locking onto a target is described as a take aim action where instead of gaining +1 you ignore range penalties.
Edit: reread the rules, yes the maximum number of subsequent take aim actions you can take is ½ your skill
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Neraph
post Jan 6 2013, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Jan 6 2013, 04:17 AM) *
The rules support the former interpretation - it talks about how many sequential take aim actions you can take, rather than the bonus.

Purtty much.
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Dolanar
post Jan 7 2013, 01:37 PM
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so basically if you want to take aim to the maximum without zooming you'd have to spend the entire first IP aiming to get the +3 (1 free action, & 2 simple actions)
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StealthSigma
post Jan 7 2013, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE (Dolanar @ Jan 7 2013, 09:37 AM) *
so basically if you want to take aim to the maximum without zooming you'd have to spend the entire first IP aiming to get the +3 (1 free action, & 2 simple actions)


If you have Krav Maga. If you don't, then you spend 1 IP taking aim, the first action of the 2nd IP taking aim, and the 2nd action of the 2nd IP shooting. For the record, a mundane can take 4 take aim actions if ultra-specialized. Aptitude for 7 ranks in Longarms + a reflex recorder (it augments rather than provides a dice pool modifier) maxes your skill 8. An awakened character could get 5 take aim actions if they take aptitude (which would make the max skill 10).

Take Aim actions limited by skill is another reason why Hawkeye is good. You get your full potential take aim dice at short and medium range instead of just short and taking aim to eliminate penalties only gives a greater benefit at extreme range rather than long and extreme.
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 7 2013, 02:05 PM
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Get KravMaga and Adept Multitasking, then you can take 4 aim actions as long as you are not directly involved in combat (depending on your GM, a conceald sniper may not be directly involved)
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Lionhearted
post Jan 7 2013, 03:35 PM
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Reflex recorder is a dicepool modifier isn't it? I don't think those apply to Take Aim.
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 7 2013, 03:39 PM
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Reflex Recorder was errataed to be a skill modifier (even in the SR4 errata 1.5 from Dec1, 2006)
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StealthSigma
post Jan 7 2013, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jan 7 2013, 11:39 AM) *
Reflex Recorder was errataed to be a skill modifier (even in the SR4 errata 1.5 from Dec1, 2006)


The errata I'm reading for SR4 says "adds 1 to the rating". SR4A also says it adds to the rating. It is an augment, not a dice pool modifier.
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Lionhearted
post Jan 7 2013, 04:12 PM
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By the same token wouldn't the same apply to improved ability modified skills?
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StealthSigma
post Jan 7 2013, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 7 2013, 12:12 PM) *
By the same token wouldn't the same apply to improved ability modified skills?


The adept power? Yes. That's an augment to the skill rating.
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 7 2013, 04:50 PM
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Yes, sadly it was errataed to be a skill modifier, not a DP mod. Really kicked (dual-wielding) pistol adepts in the nuts.
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StealthSigma
post Jan 7 2013, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jan 7 2013, 12:50 PM) *
Yes, sadly it was errataed to be a skill modifier, not a DP mod. Really kicked (dual-wielding) pistol adepts in the nuts.


Do you have a citation for this? Everything I've found says it increases the rating.
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 7 2013, 04:58 PM
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Original FanPro SR4 Core Rulebook, © 2005
QUOTE
This power gives you additional dice for use with a specific Active skill. Dice purchased for the Active skill carry over equally to any specializations of the skill you know. You cannot have more additional dice than your base skill rating. Improved Ability does not actually improve a skill’s rating, it only provides additional dice for tests involving the skill. Improved Ability must be purchased for a specific skill, not a skill group.

Pistols 6 (Heavy Pistols +2) and Improved Ability (Pistols) 6 was really nice back then.
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StealthSigma
post Jan 7 2013, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jan 7 2013, 12:58 PM) *
Original FanPro SR4 Core Rulebook, © 2005

Pistols 6 (Heavy Pistols +2) and Improved Ability (Pistols) 6 was really nice back then.


The errata from their site says the following about improved ability.

QUOTE
This power increases the rating of a specific Active skill by 1 per level.


This is exactly what is written in SR4A.
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 7 2013, 05:02 PM
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Well, i already said that ... i was just remembering the old days when a gun adept could really shine.
QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Jan 7 2013, 05:50 PM) *
Yes, sadly it was errataed to be a skill modifier, not a DP mod. Really kicked (dual-wielding) pistol adepts in the nuts.
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Lionhearted
post Jan 7 2013, 05:11 PM
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So an adept with improved ability, aptitude and a reflex recorder (which explicitly states it stacks with everything) is really good at aiming
Able to reach +5 or +6 (Do you round up or down w. Imp ability?)
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NiL_FisK_Urd
post Jan 7 2013, 05:15 PM
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Improved Ability (at the maximum level) and Reflex Recorder do not stack, the max. combined bonus you can achieve from them is 3. Together with a natural skill of 7 (aptitude PQ), max. aiming is at 5. It is rounded down (p. 148, SR4A).
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Lionhearted
post Jan 7 2013, 05:25 PM
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Why wouldn't they stack?
Oh yeah... Finally found the entry on modified skill ratings.
There's a scary amount of stuff in the 4A errata that's word for word what SR4 says. (3rd print)
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StealthSigma
post Jan 7 2013, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 7 2013, 01:11 PM) *
So an adept with improved ability, aptitude and a reflex recorder (which explicitly states it stacks with everything) is really good at aiming
Able to reach +5 or +6 (Do you round up or down w. Imp ability?)


Your max take aim is explicitly limited by your augmented maximum. For a skill who normally has a natural cap of 6, the max augmented rating is 9 which divided in half and rounded down permits 4 take aim actions. By taking aptitude, that raises your natural cap to 7 and your augmented cap to 10 which permits 5 take aim actions. If you can find a way to raise your natural cap to 8, then your augmented cap would be 12 and you could get six take aim actions.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jan 8 2013, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 7 2013, 10:25 AM) *
Why wouldn't they stack?
Oh yeah... Finally found the entry on modified skill ratings.
There's a scary amount of stuff in the 4A errata that's word for word what SR4 says. (3rd print)


Why is that Scary, exactly?
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StealthSigma
post Jan 8 2013, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (Lionhearted @ Jan 7 2013, 01:25 PM) *
There's a scary amount of stuff in the 4A errata that's word for word what SR4 says. (3rd print)


There's at least 4 printings of the core rulebook prior to the anniversary edition and at least 2 printings of the anniversary edition.
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