Question on Empathy software, it can't be that broken Options

[artent]

Arsenal pg. 60
"Empathy: Empathy software is designed for use with
standard video/trideo cameras, carefully analyzing the behavioral
patterns of the subject to ascertain mood, interest, and so
on. Empathy soft ware can be used to make a Judge Intentions Test
(see p. 130, SR4) for emotional status using its rating as the dice
pool. It does not detect falsehoods; that’s the realm of lie detection
soft ware."

sounds legit, but then.....

"Empathy soft ware can be discreetly used in real time during
negotiations or social interactions, adding its rating as a dice
pool bonus to the character’s Social skill tests."

Wait..so I get +6 dice to all my social tests just for having this installed in my comlink at 3k with an image link? Am I missing something?

[Stahlseele]

no, it is that bulldrek stupid . .
it is SO MUCH of a MUST HAVE, that even old granny smith should have it running all the time . .
all it really does is make every pc and ever npc have 6 more dice in their pool . .

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, you are not installing a Rating 6 Software Package into a Low-end Comlink, either. So yes, you are missing something.
Typically, the average user will have a +2 to +3 for their Comlink. Big deal...

What is stupid are the Emotitoys. *sigh*

[DamHawke]

But who wouldn't want a colourful critter sitting on their shoulder, feeding useful info to your commlink (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, anyone who doesn't have a reputation to protect anyway.

[Kiirnodel]

Well, you are not installing a Rating 6 Software Package into a Low-end Comlink, either. So yes, you are missing something.
Typically, the average user will have a +2 to +3 for their Comlink. Big deal...

What is stupid are the Emotitoys. *sigh*

Right, don't forget that a program's rating is limited by the system of the commlink.

[Bearclaw]

But who wouldn't want a colourful critter sitting on their shoulder, feeding useful info to your commlink (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, anyone who doesn't have a reputation to protect anyway.

What you call a "colourful critter" I call a drone, providing an extra set of eyes and ears. Upgrade the sensors with all the hearing boosts and he makes sure you don't get snuck up on or miss any sub-vocal conversations going on. And gives you +6 to your social skills tests (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At my table, we've decided the EVERYONE has Empathy software, so unless it's a special situation, like a street vendor in Lagos, we don't add those dice.

[Elfenlied]

It's not more stupid or ubiquitous than the smartlink, which is also must have and extremely cheap. Just remember to have a high rating comlink. And actually use all social modifiers.

[hermit]

Question on Empathy software, it can't be that broken

It can.

[Modular Man]

I don't think it would be that difficult to direct a hidden camera feed to the emotitoy hidden in the face's purse or backpack, so... That's were things start to get nasty.
Me, I'm thinking of anti-camera equipment for our face. Kills other emotitoys whereas hers keeps working.
Well, at least until those get houserule-hammered, which is also a slight possibility if my character starts doubling his pool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (or worse, the Uncouth dude starts facing, now that he got skillwires...)

[hermit]

Empathy software is available without MooDragon™. MooDragon™ makes Sadface 2.1™!

[bannockburn]

MooDragon™ is your rightful overlord! Bow before his majesty!

[Critias]

It's not more stupid or ubiquitous than the smartlink, which is also must have and extremely cheap.

Though it does provide three times the die-pool benefit, FWIW.

[Falconer]

Meh... I had a street sam/face tossing 12 dice with empathy included. Is that so stupidly broken?

(4cha, 4 ranks in the social skill group, 4 empathy software running on an internal only commlink; as he saw it he already had the eyes and the internal link and the skills... why not shell out for some extra software. empathy, lie detection, face recognition were the 3 he went with).

Though I agree in principle. But given how utterly ludicrous large social dice pools can get 30 dice pornomancers anyone? This is small potatoes.

Yeah stacking emotipets are the bigger problem.

[Stahlseele]

think about it this way:
skills are by nature limited to 6.
the usual metahuman charisma is limited to 6 or less with only elves getting a 7.
basically, this bit of software is WORLD CLASS SKILL LEVEL.
OR maximum unaugmented Charisma.
And in your example, that was a 50% improvement.
The only reason people don't think this is bad is because this is not for Body or Str or Agi . .

[JanessaVR]

The social consequences of this have been explored in The Truth Machine. It posits that wide-scale everyday use of an unbeatable lie detector would transform society and eliminate crime (heck, when you travel anywhere, they first ask if you've broken any laws). The author saw it as utopian - I was curling up in terror.

[hermit]

It's puritan utopia. Dishonesty, though, is a necessary part of communication (not just human, mind you). Social interaction is impossible otherwise. Then, all you have are data streams being processed by nodes. Some utopia.

[JanessaVR]

It's puritan utopia. Dishonesty, though, is a necessary part of communication (not just human, mind you). Social interaction is impossible otherwise. Then, all you have are data streams being processed by nodes. Some utopia.

Not arguing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

I think this is an excellent representation of empathy software at work - and possible social reactions to it, too.

[Stahlseele]

"Honey, does this Dress make my ass look fat?" < = you lie or you die . .

[Falconer]

Stahl.. yes it was a 50% improvement... But the character in question did not dumpstat charisma (soft maxed human-looking orc). Maxed out the skills in chargen (rating 4 skillgroups).

Compare above character to a full fledged pornomancer. 30 dice between adept powers... tailored pheromones, etc. etc. etc. plus empathy software. My point was that I didn't consider it a broken example running the software on an internal response 4 commlink. (no trying to cheese it out and run it right on the cybereyes for example... something I think is possible but only if the empathy is rewritten specifically to run on that model cybereye peripheral...).


Lets look at other examples though... rating 6 medkit anyone? Where's the outrage there +6 dice and use the skill untrained. There is other equipment in the game which adds it's rating 1-6 to assorted tests.


Your outrage isn't at empathy (excepting emotipets), it's at the system as a whole. Your outrage is at a system where people can easily pull twice as many dice from an attribute as the skill, then get equipment to equal the skill. So by the end of the day only a quarter of the dice are coming from skill as opposed to other sources.

SR5 is already addressing this... skills now going 1-12. Equipment becoming a precision type thing instead of extra dice is the general gist of the little we've been shown so far.

Hermit:
Yeah I loved that short film when others linked it earlier...

[hermit]

Think of raising children, too, but yes, there are situations where honesty isn't a virtue, or even socially inadequate (see Stahlseele).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Though it does provide three times the die-pool benefit, FWIW.

It CAN proivide up to 3x the benefit. The average user will likely only have +2 to +3. *shrug*
Whereas EVERY user gets that +2 for Smartlink. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

What, normal characters cannot afford three-digit prices anymore? A lv. 6 nonmobile MooDragon™ is 600 Nuyen ... with no Availability rating.

[Thorguild]

Your outrage isn't at empathy (excepting emotipets), it's at the system as a whole. Your outrage is at a system where people can easily pull twice as many dice from an attribute as the skill, then get equipment to equal the skill. So by the end of the day only a quarter of the dice are coming from skill as opposed to other sources.

(I should really put this in another post, but)

This is a point of cognitive dissonance for me in SR. It was less bad in Cyberpunk, where "Metal is Better than Meat" was the game's actual battlecry. This future has cybertech that are more common than autos in our world. We use autos to routinely travel 30x faster than my best sprint. Metal IS better than meat. The game wants to make meat stand a chance against metal. That's a hard row to hoe.

"The Truth Machine" is a great example. By 3/4 through, everyone had them built into common clothes, and the display went to invisible (except to the user) dots inside glasses. In a companion book, the main character routinely blocked his view of it when talking to family to give them "respectful privacy".

IRL, it isn't hard to see a future where bullets DON'T miss. Invisibly-small drones might land on you and blow you to bits with zero warning. Machines and code might read your physical state so well they know things about that YOU don't.

Circling back, though, I think the OP is really talking about how to use this game mechanic without changing the ENTIRE world like has been done in the story. Maybe just decide you don't want it in your world and ban it?

Thorguild

[Stahlseele]

Some people actually do question stuff that is in the books.
For example, both fluff AND crunch make it impossible to be a shadowrunner using a fake sin . .