Initiative Passes Options

[Sinistra]

I spent some time searching for answers on the forum seeing if I could find any, and exluding Awakened, Infected, and technomancers/VR

Is there a way to get 3 Initiative passed other than Wired Reflexes and Synaptic Booster(I believe that is the Bioware version of Wired Reflexes). I know Cram, Kamakazi and Jazz all give +1 Reaction and +1 Pass per 25th Anniversary book. But in my digging through the sources we have at our disposal and the forums I was wondering if there was a more potent drug somewhere since I can not with this character afford the Wired Reflexes apparently (I was expecting more Nuyen after character creation...since I have seen what the other players got >.>.) I would deal with only having two passes, if 3 of the 5 of us did not have 4(Adepts and Mages of Course). The other person finally got their in meat second and they spend half the game session in combat spacing out waiting for the other three to finish.

And would Cram potentially stack with Wired Reflexes(For only the passes) or when it says "Wired reflexes does not stack with any other form of initiative enhancement also mean passes?

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

K-10 gives +3 Initiative Passes.

[Lionhearted]

Yes, not stacking applies to passes aswell.
Not sure if you can speedball drugs to cram out more passes (see what I did there)
You should take a word from Picador though, stay the hell away from kamikaze, except from severely lessened life expectancy, Berserk is bad! Tearing your friends heads off is bad!

[Umidori]

The Impoved Reflexes spell is an option.

~Umi

[Umidori]

Double Post.

[crazyconscript]

Hmmm, non-ware based ways of getting extra IP's...taking K-10 or getting a mage to cast Improved Reflexes are the only ways I can think of honestly.
Move-by-wire is an alternative to Wired Reflexes, but if cost is an issue then that wouldn't help out I'm afraid.
Of course, there is the other method of spending Edge to get an extra IP, but that burns through your Edge FAST.

[Bearclaw]

If you have enough edge, you can always get extra passes when you really need them that way.

[DeathStrobe]

What's your archetype?

Technomancers can get echoes to improve their IP, but it takes a long time to get them.

Mages have a spell that can help.

Adepts have adept powers.

Street Sams got wired reflexes.

Hackers and Riggers have Hot Sim (and a few other goodies to get more).

But yeah, everyone else, they got to use drugs to get that edge in combat.

[Umidori]

I'd also argue that the various Infected with 2 natural passes can still benefit from various drugs to bring them up to 3, although you couldn't stack the drugs further to hit 4.

~Umi

[Lionhearted]

More importantly, what kind of game is it?
Are you worried that you'll just be sitting around because combat is such a major part or are you just worried you'll be twirling your thumbs when combat do occur?
If it's the latter, don't worry about it, invest into some edge so that you can have multiple passes in a make or break situation, then just focus on making the character you want to.
Rigger seem to be a match made in heaven, drones come with 3 IP and can do their own thing when your out of juice.

[Rubic]

One of my characters was built around the Chemistry skill. She had a signature slap patch which speedballed K-10 and Dopadrine (to counteract possible Berserk). It was affectionately referred to as Kates (K-8's). That's a relatively safe way to run up 3 initiative passes without risking Berserk, and you still get an overall bonus to Physical stats (1 less than pure K-10). You're still liable to be addicted, though.

[Umidori]

Forget addicted. You're liable to DIE.

Remember, when you crash from K-10 you take 18S, unresisted. Unless you're a troll or orc with absurd body, taking just a couple solid hits in combat can doom you to dying outright when the drug wears off, blowing straight through your overflow boxes.

~Umi

[Rubic]

Forget addicted. You're liable to DIE.

Remember, when you crash from K-10 you take 18S, unresisted. Unless you're a troll or orc with absurd body, taking just a couple solid hits in combat can doom you to dying outright when the drug wears off, blowing straight through your overflow boxes.

~Umi

Right. That's why she never used it herself. Gangers can make for some good customers on dangerous chems (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[RHat]

If the mage is willing to do it (would help if they had the foci to do it), they could always use the Increase Reflexes spell on other people, too... Of course, given the time that would take, it would either mean multicasting or only being suited as a preparatory measure. And given the spell design rules, there's no reason you couldn't design an area version of Increased Reflexes - you're looking at a (F/2)+6 Drain code without some kind of restriction, though.

[Rubic]

If the mage is willing to do it (would help if they had the foci to do it), they could always use the Increase Reflexes spell on other people, too... Of course, given the time that would take, it would either mean multicasting or only being suited as a preparatory measure. And given the spell design rules, there's no reason you couldn't design an area version of Increased Reflexes - you're looking at a (F/2)+6 Drain code without some kind of restriction, though.

How about "No eating within 24 hours or else you vomit and lose bowel control?" Wait, wrong restriction...

[PittsburghRPGA]

Forget addicted. You're liable to DIE.

Remember, when you crash from K-10 you take 18S, unresisted. Unless you're a troll or orc with absurd body, taking just a couple solid hits in combat can doom you to dying outright when the drug wears off, blowing straight through your overflow boxes.

~Umi

What about having a built in rating 6 medkit in your armor for just such an emergency?

Or say for when your crazy ork street sam walks up to a cabin in the woods without searching first for the mercs in light military armor and HVAR's loaded with Ex-EX ammo and gets his crazy vindicitive ass shot all to hell?

Can a something like a trauma patch dose be put into an auto-injector?

Knocked out but not dead might due as long as not everyone in the party has done that. Heck, K-10 lasts nearly long enough for them to shot the hell out of the opposition, then run and jump into a valkyrie unit in the rigger's bus.

Just a thought or two. I need to make sure my ablative ork & troll chummers keep the bad guys distracted and not shooting at me.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Umidori]

Definitely something to only use on Orks and Trolls. The problem is that your overflow is equal to your Body, so if that's too low even just taking a couple shots of stun damage before the crash can kill you flat out.

A Body of 6 gives 11 Physical Boxes and 6 Overflow boxes. That means you can only survive if you take less than (Stun Track - 2) damage of any kind. With an average Willpower, that means you can suffer 8 damage and still have a chance at survival. Get shot twice and soak poorly, you're toast.

~Umi

[Falconer]

Troll... bod9, Toss on 4 half-cyberlimbs... +4 physical.
Willpower 5 for 11 stun boxes...

17 physical boxes with 9 overflow.

Pain editor to stay conscious.... and platelets for the 1 free damage reduction on the unresisted damage.

Orc with 7 bod is only a step behind...

[Umidori]

I wouldn't allow the Platelet Factory to modify the crash damage. That seems to go completely against the spirit of unresisted damage.

~Umi

[Falconer]

Actually no it doesn't go against the flavor... because platelets aren't part of resisting damage... they simply change how you check off damage boxes after you've resisted damage.... 3 or more reduce the number checked off by one (or if you use the more restrictive wording... 3 or more physical boxes since this is stun overflow).

As does the trauma damper (but its incompatibility with the pain editor leads to an unconsciousness problem with a full stun track).

[Summerstorm]

Aaaaand then there is the question: WHY unresisted damage? Doesn't seem in line with all the other rules. This and the Adrenal Gland bioware should do a damage-code, but allow for resisting. Some bodies can take damage others can't. This is not only represented with having more damage boxes, in my opinion.

So i would say change that to 20S resisted damage or something.

ah well. Also: you can get a IP with usage of edge too. If you are one of the "high-edge" characters i guess you could plan and use that regularly.

2 IP are ok for combat though. The dudes with 4 are the annoying ones, hogging all the actions.

[Falconer]

Summer:
There's always the positive quality which for 10BP you can be immune to the effects of a chemical.

Talk to the GM... some take that to mean you get the good stuff which comes with a drug without all the nasty side effects. It is a pretty pricey quality once you start tossing in regular drug costs on top. (and keeping yourself supplied with them). Remember street quality can vary widely... and you never know what some street vendor is cutting in his drug. Maybe that jazz popper is really another combat drug...

But that's the basis of some of the 'juicer' concepts.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16635
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=31073

[Lionhearted]

That's not how drug resistance actually works...

[Umidori]

That's not even how side effects work.

You can't eat your cake and have it too.

~Umi

[Falconer]

I agree with that's not how they're supposed to work... but I have seen some people RP 'juicers' as drugged out whackjobs in character... and the GM allow it to work like that.

It's not your 'typical' street sam... more like a up-jumped ganger.


Why I said I've seen 'some people' do it that way... not that is supposed to be done that way.