War. Huh. What is it good for?, War. War never changes Options

[Aaron]

Don't be an ass. Nothing about this situation is "cute" or funny. Many, many people could be dead very soon.

Many people will be dead very soon. According to the CIA Factbook, there will be over 8 deaths per 1,000 people this year. If war breaks out, then the situation becomes serious. When North Korea claims to be on war footing against the United States (and by extension NATO), that's cute. To me, at least.

This comment ranks up there with all bs tough-guy speak. "Bring 'em on".

If you think so. I defer to Rep. Peter King, former chair of the House Homeland Security Committee, who said that he does not fear the North launching a successful attack on the U.S. mainland, but is concerned North Korean leader Kim Jong Un "is trying to establish himself ... trying to be the tough guy." We'll have to disagree, but thank you for the discussion.

[hermit]

I wonder whether they're trying to get invaded so they can be rebuilt with foreign money.

After how America failed with other countries, not likely.

[Aaron]

After how America failed with other countries, not likely.

Yeah, I agree, although after seeing what we did with Japan and then South Korea, I can see them giving it a shot.

[phlapjack77]

Many people will be dead very soon. According to the CIA Factbook, there will be over 8 deaths per 1,000 people this year. If war breaks out, then the situation becomes serious. When North Korea claims to be on war footing against the United States (and by extension NATO), that's cute. To me, at least.

Yes, people die all the time, but to claim that makes it ok to trivialize the potential for massive loss of life is pretty bad.

If you think so. I defer to Rep. Peter King, former chair of the House Homeland Security Committee, who said that he does not fear the North launching a successful attack on the U.S. mainland, but is concerned North Korean leader Kim Jong Un "is trying to establish himself ... trying to be the tough guy." We'll have to disagree, but thank you for the discussion.

Whether you believe NK will strike or not is a wholly different subject than calling the situation "totes adorbs" and cute. How old are you?

[hermit]

Yeah, I agree, although after seeing what we did with Japan and then South Korea, I can see them giving it a shot.

You had little to do with the rebuilding of South Korea, Koreans did that themselves, by and large. Japan was nearly 70 years ago, and an industrialised country before you nuked it, despite not being majorily white (writing that because you strike me as the kind of person that needs this reminder), so it had a good position to rebuild itself even after total devastation. South Korea built themselves from nothing, against a junta supported by America, after America finished what the Japanese had left standing. that's quite the achivement, but no thanks to America.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya ... America's track record really sucks. I cannot see where your idea came from, save from an interesting world view.

Whether you believe NK will strike or not is a wholly different subject than calling the situation "totes adorbs" and cute. How old are you?

He's in his 30s, male, and American. He's also a CGL writer.

[Tanegar]

Speaking as a thirtysomething American male, if Aaron is the kind of guy who posts on the official SR4 forums, I'm quite happy staying here at Dumpshock.

[hermit]

Speaking as a thirtysomething American male, if Aaron is the kind of guy who posts on the official SR4 forums, I'm quite happy staying here at Dumpshock.

He's not even the worst of the lot.

[phlapjack77]

They may be right, but I think it fairly likely that China's "support" for North Korea will take the form of military maneuvers on the border and/or in the Yellow Sea. I really don't think the Chinese are willing to go to war for Kim Jong-Un.

I think you're right. China has a real conundrum: They lose face by backing such an obvious lunatic, they also lose face if they're seen to cave to Western wishes or ideology. While China isn't ready to 100% throw NK under the bus, they're not willing to continue backing such a difficult position either. They're losing face hourly with every new crazy proclamation coming out of NK. I personally think they're going to do some major behind-the-scenes negotiating with the rest of the world to try to slowly extricate themselves from associations with NK. Then at some point they can point and say "those guys? no, we've never supported them."

[Tanegar]

Oh, the diplomatic cables are flying thick and fast, believe me. You're absolutely right that North Korea is an albatross around China's neck, and I'd bet good money that Chinese diplomats are talking to both the US and North Korean governments. Their conversations with the Americans probably have to do with limiting the scope of any conflict, with a secondary goal of blunting or deflecting US displeasure; and the Chinese messages to North Korea are most likely along the lines of "Shut up and sit down, you idiot child." In diplospeak, of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Really, whether or not armed conflict boils up on the Korean Peninsula again is going to come down to how much influence the Chinese still have over North Korea. If China can tell young master Kim to quit being such an asinine little psycho, and make it stick, this might just blow over. If not... well.

[hermit]

Oh, the diplomatic cables are flying thick and fast, believe me. You're absolutely right that North Korea is an albatross around China's neck, and I'd bet good money that Chinese diplomats are talking to both the US and North Korean governments. Their conversations with the Americans probably have to do with limiting the scope of any conflict, with a secondary goal of blunting or deflecting US displeasure; and the Chinese messages to North Korea are most likely along the lines of "Shut up and sit down, you idiot child." In diplospeak, of course.

This is spiralling out of control fast. It's kind of similar to the situation in the Mideast, but more volatile because everybody is even less used to talking to each other, and even more hysterical.

North Korea appears to feel genuinely threatened by now. I think they really do, and from their perspective it's not even implausible; America attacking countries without good reason happened recently, so it could happen again, for all they know. Add to that an inexperienced dictator who has to prove himself to his all-powerful military, and time running out on the usefulness of North Korea's army, and it's a bloody mess. China has to try to keep North Korea calm, convince America (and South Korea) forced regime change is not in their interest, and look good doing so. That'd be hard on every country - America's got a similar role with respect to Israel and Iran. It is even harder if the nation in question (rather, it's diplomatic corps) is not really used to this kind of diplomacy and the parties involved are not able to communicate (or, in Korth Korea's case, purposely isolate themselves).

[Grinder]

Stahlseele, why did you start this thread in the first place?

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