Confused on Comlinks and Deadzones |
Confused on Comlinks and Deadzones |
Apr 15 2013, 03:13 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 4-January 12 Member No.: 46,775 |
Say I'm a hacker or a technomancer, and I jump into a comlink Hotsim VR. Now that comlink physically moves into a matrix dead zone...what happens to me? Am I dumped? Would the same thing happen to an agent or sprite that I sent there?
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Apr 15 2013, 03:18 PM
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#2
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
If the zone is indeed dead (meaning you cannot obtain mutual signal range) then yes, you are dumped. As would your agent or Sprite . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Easily solved by a repeater with Signal 6. Or a group of Meshed RFID's, or whatever that would allow you to establsih MSR. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Apr 15 2013, 03:48 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 27-September 12 Member No.: 56,316 |
If the zone is indeed dead (meaning you cannot obtain mutual signal range) then yes, you are dumped. As would your agent or Sprite . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Easily solved by a repeater with Signal 6. Or a group of Meshed RFID's, or whatever that would allow you to establsih MSR. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Actually, a Sprite would stick around. It would be on Remote Task, but it would continue doing whatever you last commanded it to do until it finished, destroyed, or its duration expired. Likewise, an Agent that you loaded into that particular commlink (rather than running it off of your own) would act the same way. It would work until it finished or was forcibly removed. |
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Apr 15 2013, 03:54 PM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,492 Joined: 19-April 12 Member No.: 51,818 |
Also, by "dumped" - IMO you wouldn't be dumped as in, "OMG dumpshock" .... rather, you would find yourself unceremoniously dropped back into your own commlink's "start" space.
Kind of like rubberbanding back to your spawn point in an FPS game. |
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Apr 15 2013, 04:00 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 27-September 12 Member No.: 56,316 |
I thought that is exactly when you would suffer dumpshock. Any time you get dumped from a node without logging out properly. Effectively, suddenly losing Mutual Signal with the node where your mind is working is like the Node crashing and dumping you. Causes dumpshock.
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Apr 15 2013, 04:59 PM
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#6
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
I thought that is exactly when you would suffer dumpshock. Any time you get dumped from a node without logging out properly. Effectively, suddenly losing Mutual Signal with the node where your mind is working is like the Node crashing and dumping you. Causes dumpshock. It is... Now, if you are in your own Comlink, and you enter a deadzone, you are not dumped, as you are not connected to anything other than your own link. However, I was under the impression that the question was asking about being in someone else's 'Link (or off in another mobile node) with an open subscription. Sorry for not being clear. As for Sprites/Agents, they would have to be LOADED on the target comlink (rather than subscribed to it), and if that is the case, then yes, they would remain on the link until it regained connectivity (Subscribed Connections would sever as soon as MSR was severed and they would lose connectivity). |
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Apr 15 2013, 05:27 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 27-September 12 Member No.: 56,316 |
Right, that's what I said.
Also for clarity, Sprites don't need to be loaded. As creatures of Resonance they run themselves. Whatever node they are on is where they exist. The only difference with the connection break is whether or not they can connect with the Technomancer that created them for the Link they have. If there is no data channel from the Sprite to the Technomancer, the link is broken and the Sprite & Technomancer have no way to communicate. If/when a connection opens back up it is a test to reestablish this connection. |
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Apr 16 2013, 02:38 AM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,962 Joined: 27-February 13 Member No.: 76,875 |
Also, a sprite could technically just drop into the Resonance and then go to wherever they needed to go, as they kind of get to ignore routing.
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Apr 16 2013, 03:03 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 7-June 11 From: Virginia Beach, VA Member No.: 31,052 |
Also, a sprite could technically just drop into the Resonance and then go to wherever they needed to go, as they kind of get to ignore routing. They're limited to going to where the technomancer they're compiled/registered to can go, as per core rules/20 Anniversary. The technomancer has to have submerged once before they can pull off that feat. |
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Apr 16 2013, 03:12 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,962 Joined: 27-February 13 Member No.: 76,875 |
They're limited to going to where the technomancer they're compiled/registered to can go, as per core rules/20 Anniversary. The technomancer has to have submerged once before they can pull off that feat. I'm going to need to ask for a citation, here, because the closest thing I can find to something saying that would require that we pretend Remote Tasks didn't exist. |
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Apr 16 2013, 03:34 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 7-June 11 From: Virginia Beach, VA Member No.: 31,052 |
I'm going to need to ask for a citation, here, because the closest thing I can find to something saying that would require that we pretend Remote Tasks didn't exist. SR4A, p. 241, Top Left: " ... Sprites must remain with the technomancer. Sprites can be temporarily dismissed at any time and called back at a later point (within that 8-hour period); both requiring a Simple Action. Sprites can only access other nodes if they are accompanying or called by the technomancer, or if they are sent on a remote task. REMOTE TASKS Sprites can be instructed to undertake a remote task in another node, sent to operate away from the technomancer. e sprite can only access public nodes or private nodes for which it has the passcodes or that it can hack with an Exploit complex form. Remote tasks forfeit any further tasks the sprite owes. [note: This last limitation applies only to unregistered sprites, as per the later section, same page]" Ambiguously worded, if you ask me. However, I did note: Unwired, p. 154 "Sprites And Node Access As creatures of resonance, sprites may travel to and from the resonance realms as they please. This allows them a kind of shortcut, taking a path from one node to another via the resonance realms, rather than through the Matrix. This does not, however, give them a free pass to bypass firewalls and system security. A sprite may only use this shortcut to access a node in which the technomancer to whom they are registered is present (i.e., the technomancer calls them into the node), or in which they have legitimate account or backdoor access. Otherwise, the sprite must hack into the node, following the same rules as any other hacker (p. 221, SR4)." I'm willing to concede it, though I'd GM it differently (a house rule). On the other hand... I could easily use this with my current technomancer... crack and crumble more, my precious Shadowrun. |
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Apr 16 2013, 06:20 PM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: 4-January 12 Member No.: 46,775 |
wow..this seems to imply that I could..for instance.... Call 2 registered sprites, say Data and Crack, and send them in to the sealed environment with the stealthy char. They hack the system and steal the data, then go back into the resonance. Then I call them back to me with the data they collected, without ever needing to connect to the network myself...that's BA.
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Apr 16 2013, 06:23 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 27-September 12 Member No.: 56,316 |
They'd need to be Registered so that they could go on Remote Tasks without forfeiting your remaining services. But yeah, basically that.
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Apr 16 2013, 06:37 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 13-November 11 From: Vienna, Austria Member No.: 43,494 |
wow..this seems to imply that I could..for instance.... Call 2 registered sprites, say Data and Crack, and send them in to the sealed environment with the stealthy char. They hack the system and steal the data, then go back into the resonance. Then I call them back to me with the data they collected, without ever needing to connect to the network myself...that's BA. Well, if you have to find and steal a McGuffin, a Mage could summon and bind one Spirit with Search and let it find and steal the McGuffin. That's basically the same problem. |
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Apr 16 2013, 08:05 PM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
wow..this seems to imply that I could..for instance.... Call 2 registered sprites, say Data and Crack, and send them in to the sealed environment with the stealthy char. They hack the system and steal the data, then go back into the resonance. Then I call them back to me with the data they collected, without ever needing to connect to the network myself...that's BA. i don't think they can. how are they going to carry the data? sprites don't have data storage, as far as i know. now, if the data is something like "what colour are the walls in damien knight's office" for some odd reason, sure, they could read that information, and come back to you with that specific piece of information. but if you're talking about bringing back a file, i don't think they can actually do that. |
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Apr 16 2013, 08:06 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 7-June 11 From: Virginia Beach, VA Member No.: 31,052 |
Well, if you have to find and steal a McGuffin, a Mage could summon and bind one Spirit with Search and let it find and steal the McGuffin. That's basically the same problem. Not exactly. A McGuffin could be hidden in a mana deadzone, or a mana static aspected to a tradition other than your own to the point of being impenetrable (rating 10-20ish). Also, it's debatable whether a spirit on a task could disappear into the ether and pop back into reality with a physical object like that, favoring the "not" side of the argument. A sprite, on the other hand, could pop into the resonance, pop back onto a system that is otherwise unreachable (i.e. 100 km down in the earth, or up in space), hack into the system, nab the paydata, jump back out into the resonance, and report back to the technomancer. If a magician has initiated, they can do the same as the spirit, leaving their body behind, and not being able to drag materials with them when they leave/return (same as the spirit). |
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Apr 16 2013, 08:32 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 13-November 11 From: Vienna, Austria Member No.: 43,494 |
The question is - can a Sprite access the Resonance from a non-networked Node? I doubt that.
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Apr 16 2013, 09:00 PM
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#18
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
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Apr 16 2013, 10:15 PM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 64 Joined: 16-January 13 Member No.: 69,049 |
Or the T/M is there. Or if its a free sprite who can access the resonance realms. Free sprites with initiation are no fun.
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Apr 16 2013, 10:23 PM
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#20
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
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Apr 17 2013, 01:07 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 7-June 11 From: Virginia Beach, VA Member No.: 31,052 |
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Apr 17 2013, 01:34 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 27-September 12 Member No.: 56,316 |
SR4A, p. 241, Top Left: " ... Sprites must remain with the technomancer. Sprites can be temporarily dismissed at any time and called back at a later point (within that 8-hour period); both requiring a Simple Action. Sprites can only access other nodes if they are accompanying or called by the technomancer, or if they are sent on a remote task. REMOTE TASKS Sprites can be instructed to undertake a remote task in another node, sent to operate away from the technomancer. e sprite can only access public nodes or private nodes for which it has the passcodes or that it can hack with an Exploit complex form. Remote tasks forfeit any further tasks the sprite owes. [note: This last limitation applies only to unregistered sprites, as per the later section, same page]" Ambiguously worded, if you ask me. However, I did note: Unwired, p. 154 "Sprites And Node Access As creatures of resonance, sprites may travel to and from the resonance realms as they please. This allows them a kind of shortcut, taking a path from one node to another via the resonance realms, rather than through the Matrix. This does not, however, give them a free pass to bypass firewalls and system security. A sprite may only use this shortcut to access a node in which the technomancer to whom they are registered is present (i.e., the technomancer calls them into the node), or in which they have legitimate account or backdoor access. Otherwise, the sprite must hack into the node, following the same rules as any other hacker (p. 221, SR4)." Underline and Bold-Italic for Emphasis mine. Or, RAW (quoted above) the sprite can hack access to the node. No actual connection required. Not really. The Sprite either needs legitimate (or fabricated) access to the node, or have their controlling Technomancer present. Otherwise they have to hack access just like a hacker. Note that hackers require mutual signal range or a subscription to be able to hack access. This means that if the Sprite doesn't have an account, they can't pop into a Node from the Resonance. This is just like a Spirit using the Astral shortcut to get to the other side of a barrier, they basically need to have already been there or be brought in by their controller. |
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Apr 17 2013, 08:55 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 7-June 11 From: Virginia Beach, VA Member No.: 31,052 |
Underline and Bold-Italic for Emphasis mine. Not really. The Sprite either needs legitimate (or fabricated) access to the node, or have their controlling Technomancer present. Otherwise they have to hack access just like a hacker. Note that hackers require mutual signal range or a subscription to be able to hack access. This means that if the Sprite doesn't have an account, they can't pop into a Node from the Resonance. This is just like a Spirit using the Astral shortcut to get to the other side of a barrier, they basically need to have already been there or be brought in by their controller. Fair enough, and that's more in line with what I'd GM it as. However, RAW, they'd be able to bypass a gatekeeper node to an unsecured and wireless-disabled node behind it. It doesn't have to be connected, it just has to be undefended on that node. Edit: They'd also be able to, potentially, jump nodes to an undefended node within mutual signal range of a defended node, without the technomancer's presence or a mutual signal range, as per RAW. |
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Apr 17 2013, 09:35 PM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,962 Joined: 27-February 13 Member No.: 76,875 |
Not really. The Sprite either needs legitimate (or fabricated) access to the node, or have their controlling Technomancer present. Otherwise they have to hack access just like a hacker. Note that hackers require mutual signal range or a subscription to be able to hack access. This means that if the Sprite doesn't have an account, they can't pop into a Node from the Resonance. This is just like a Spirit using the Astral shortcut to get to the other side of a barrier, they basically need to have already been there or be brought in by their controller. They can, however, pop into a public node and hack from there. Or into the infil specialist's commlink. And so on. |
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Apr 18 2013, 11:54 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 614 Joined: 27-September 12 Member No.: 56,316 |
Fair enough, and that's more in line with what I'd GM it as. However, RAW, they'd be able to bypass a gatekeeper node to an unsecured and wireless-disabled node behind it. It doesn't have to be connected, it just has to be undefended on that node. Edit: They'd also be able to, potentially, jump nodes to an undefended node within mutual signal range of a defended node, without the technomancer's presence or a mutual signal range, as per RAW. If you have a sub-node that is only wired connection to a security node you can still have the node check for valid users when they first log in. For instance security personnel may not be allowed into the top secret node. If the data node still checks for valid users it would keep the sprite from getting resonance access because they would have to hack to make a user account (basic level access). Simplest way of securing a node: disable public access. |
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