Rigging bikes Options

[Shadoweyes]

How exactly does this work? I was reading the 10 gangs book and they had the bikers who stay closed off at all times (whitefish?) with control rigs and rigger modded motorcycles. Wouldnt the movement-cutoff cause a person to fall off the bike, even with a gyro stabilization? Or are motorcycle riggers just that badass and full of handwavium? Because all I can think of are go gangers flopping along on the back of their bikes as they race down the highway.

[Headshot_Joe]

Maybe they strap themselves to their bikes, so they can't fall off. Though this solution would mean their body could still shift a bit, and throw the bike off balance, meaning they'd need a pretty decent gyro to stay upright.

Or perhaps they coat the bikes in hook velcro strips and wear clothes made of loop velcro material, so they stick to it. Then they'd just have to evenly distribute their weight before jumping into the bikes.

Of course, the best solution would be a custom made rigger cocoon bike. No seat, no handlebars, no manual brakes. Just get in, pass out, and burn rubber.

[SpellBinder]

Thing is, missing from their gear is a Sim Module and Motorcycle Gyro to make this possible. A Control Rig is useless outside of VR.

[Critias]

I just chalk it down to rule of cool. Dead Air had rigged-in Combat Bikers, so some folks have just run with it. Sometimes the comatose rigger is a genre trope that can be quite striking (leaning back peacefully while their metal shell wreaks violence for them), other times folks just like the idea of someone being a super awesome cybernetic driver while still being physically upright and stuff.

Handwavium for everyone! Run with the genre trope you like, and call it a day.

[CanRay]

I envision something like ski boots and a lap belt to the gas tank.

[Shaidar]

Gecko Tape Body Suit?

[Medicineman]

Headless Murdercycle rigged from afar without a stripped Body. just the Spirit inside the Machine

With a Dance inside
Medicineman

[Modular Man]

Well, moving in the real world gets, as far as I know, a dicepool modificator of -6, but is not entirely impossible.

Maybe Move-by-Wire so you can set your muscles to cling onto that bike? Somehow strapping yourself to it also seems viable and fairly useful.

[Stahlseele]

did he say . . clingon?
but yes, technically a rigger would have to be in the sidecar of the bike <.<

[Kiirnodel]

Actually, a really cool idea would be to disable the part of the sim module that keeps your body from moving while in VR and set up your motions to control the bike to coincide with the real-world counterparts.

That way a biker would get the full benefits of controlling the bike through VR while still being able to hold on to the bike and do things like leaning into the turn...

[Cochise]

It always astonishes me how literal people take RAS override in terms of shutting down physcial movement ... and 4th edition with its changes surely didn't make it easier. Ever wondered how deckers of previous editions were able to type on their decks?

RAS override was always intended to shut down unwanted physical movement and it doesn't totally preclude physical actions, so it's not too far a stretch to assume that rigging a bike involves a specialized form just for that purpose: Block unwanted movements, but allow those needed.

In 2nd and 3rd ed the rigger adaption for bikes was more expensive than the one for cars, so that explaination in combination with RAS override being part of the then necessary vehicle control rig implant surely worked better when trying to explain how bikes are rigged ... and not automatically requiring a gyro (something only necessary if the bike also has to serve as drone). Streamling there surely didn't help ..

[_Pax._]

How exactly does this work? I was reading the 10 gangs book and they had the bikers who stay closed off at all times (whitefish?) with control rigs and rigger modded motorcycles. Wouldnt the movement-cutoff cause a person to fall off the bike, even with a gyro stabilization? Or are motorcycle riggers just that badass and full of handwavium? Because all I can think of are go gangers flopping along on the back of their bikes as they race down the highway.

So, they use a seatbelt or harness. Or even just gecko tape.

There are some bikes with a "recumbant" driver position, as well.

Or, they might just be "rigging" the bikes without going into full VR. AR command-chair works just fine, after all - and would free up an action for physical stuff, like .... shooting a gun, swinging a melee weapon, throwing a grenade, chugging a beer. You know, all the "gang" parts of being a go-ganger. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[_Pax._]

It always astonishes me how literal people take RAS override in terms of shutting down physcial movement ... and 4th edition with its changes surely didn't make it easier. Ever wondered how deckers of previous editions were able to type on their decks?

That keyboard was only for use outside of VR. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cochise]

That keyboard was only for use outside of VR. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Actually: No, it wasn't ...

[Kiirnodel]

Actually: No, it wasn't ...

Yeah, I've read some of the novels, they very explicitly mention that the deckers are actually sitting with their decks typing while jumped in VR. It's kind of interesting in the sense that part of the VR experience is changing the thought process of typing out code on the physical deck with your meat body into the virtual icon performing an action. In the fiction it described the character as visualizing the action in the matrix as what she was doing but out in the real world her meat body was clacking away at her cyberdeck, it was kind of weird to think about.

[Headshot_Joe]

Thought: What if they aren't rigging the bikes at all, but have kitted themselves out as bio-drones, and are rigging themselves?

[WhiskeyJohnny]

Thought: What if they aren't rigging the bikes at all, but have kitted themselves out as bio-drones, and are rigging themselves?

It's something I've thought about - there is potential trouble in that allowing a stirrup system makes 5 meat IPs possible. Well, I mean, it's still just 5 VR IPs, but they're using them for meat actions, so they're 5 pseudo-meat IPs.

But if it were done, what skill do they use to pilot themselves, piloting the bike?

[Novocrane]

It's something I've thought about - there is potential trouble in that allowing a stirrup system makes 5 meat IPs possible. Well, I mean, it's still just 5 VR IPs, but they're using them for meat actions, so they're 5 pseudo-meat IPs.

But if it were done, what skill do they use to pilot themselves, piloting the bike?

Drivers must spend at least one Complex Action each turn driving their vehicle, or the vehicle goes out of control at the end of the Combat Turn.

Would you need a driving action for themselves and the bike?

On the actual skill used, I'd go with the lowest of the two relevant - the same as you would when dual wielding.

[DMiller]

I'd make them do 2 piloting tests... First test Pilot anthroform (to pilot their meat body) then a second pilot ground vehicles to pilot the bike, thus requiring 2 complex actions to keep it all running nicely.

[Stahlseele]

aside from, you know, only one complex action per round right? O.o

[DMiller]

aside from, you know, only one complex action per round right? O.o

You mean only 1 complex action per pass? Most VR users have at least 3 Complex Actions per round (turn) as they have 3 passes, and you have to spend at least 1 complex action per Turn controlling the vehicle or make a crash test. Since the rigger is controlling 2 vehicles in the example of rigging his own meat to drive the bike, he should be sacrificing 2 complex actions per turn to do so.

[SpellBinder]

Let the bikes drive themselves (provided they have gyros). If they're such ace hackers they'll have better than a level 1 pilot program in them.

[Cochise]

One day I'll be able to understand why people are so dead set on gimping stuff by house rules, that is in no way "unbalanced" ...

So tell me - since my remarks on RAS in general and previous editions obviously were ignored - what is in terms of game play the problem with rigged bikes without stuff like gyros or house ruled secondary piloting tests? Is that overly literal interpretation of RAS really that strong, that a more or less unprotected bike rider suddenly becomes of serious threat to the game instead of simply going by the "rule of cool"?

[DMiller]

Rule-of-cool is fine right up to the point where dice need to get involved, then the only thing that counts is crunch. Allowing a rigger to ride is motorcycle while rigging is fine unlit that bike encounters anything that would require a dice test, then it's crunch all the way. Fluff doesn't over-ride crunch it is supposed to augment it and maybe make it look cool.

Just my opinion here of course.

edit: A -6 dice pool modifier for being in full VR will preclude all but the best riders from being able to do much while in VR.

[Cochise]

Yet another simple question then: Where is the game balance issue that makes it necessary to use a different "crunch" when compared to a normally rigged car?

Edit: Due to your edit I have to assume, that your answer actually is: Yes, that overly literal interpetation of RAS (-6 on all physical actions instead of the original design that refered to unwanted, not task related physical actions) is more important than anything else.