 Playing 'Hot Potato' with elementals, Elemental Tossing |
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 Apr 24 2004, 09:55 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032  |
OK. Two mages have summoned a coupple of foce 3 fire elementals and used them to do their dirty work. Both elementals have only one service left when the mages have an idea. Why don't they try to control eachother's spirits?
One mage either willingly dosen't resist, puts himself on some penalties out, or otherwise minimises his chances of remaining in control of his spirit. The other mage easily gains 3 more successes than the current owner, thus now controls the spirit with 3 services to his name. They reciproate for exchanging control of the elemental owned by the 2nd mage. Now both mages control fire elementals with 3 services, where before they only had one service, and they've not spent one nuyen on conjuring materials. Comments? |
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Apr 24 2004, 10:02 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
Well... so far, all I'm seeing is that the original mage controlling the elemental "may" resist the attempt to steal control, not that they automatically resist or that they must resist the attempt.
While my first reaction is "wow thats awesome," it is also quite obviously broken. Edit: perhaps there should be a restriction such that the mage stealing control can only obtain a number of services equal to one less than were owed to the original summoner? This post has been edited by Jason Farlander: Apr 24 2004, 10:04 PM |
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Apr 24 2004, 10:26 PM
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#3
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Add Drain to the test, and then it is near identical to Adding Services.
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Apr 24 2004, 11:42 PM
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#4
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Adding services still requires the use of costly summoning materials in the case of elementals, while doing the hot-patatoe thing, would not. |
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Apr 25 2004, 01:29 AM
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#5
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Technomancer Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,638 Joined: 2-October 02 From: Champaign, IL Member No.: 3,374 |
In addition, this could really piss of the elemental. Then, if its controlling magician loses control, and it gets the option to, I'd have the elemental slap its controller and the other mage if I could pull it off.
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Apr 25 2004, 01:39 AM
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#6
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Yup, totally. Elementals probably take a dim view on being cheated into more services than they should have to. But anyway, this isn't a tactic I'd allow anyway. It's just a broken rule loophole. |
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Apr 25 2004, 01:44 AM
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#7
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Yeah. Saying "One can not garnish more services than the Elemental owed at the time of transfer," keeps it both useful while eliminating any use of pass the potato.
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Apr 25 2004, 04:06 AM
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#8
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Even worse (better?), what if each mage freed the elemental early? The Elemental has 3 dice to get one 4, anf go free. Becoming, effectively, a force 4 spirit (Force 3 + 1 spirit energy.) The non-releasing mage goes on an astral quest (rating 4) to learn its true name, then binds it with a single success on a conjuring test vs TN 4. Unlimited services.
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Apr 25 2004, 04:09 AM
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#9
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Is the roll for going Free required? I thought it suggested the GM decide.
Personally, I don't allow spirits that are released from service early and willingly by the summoner even a chace to go free. They depart for home. |
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Apr 25 2004, 04:49 AM
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#10
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
That's the rule.
A GM can decide to ignore any rule. |
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Apr 25 2004, 06:12 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 309 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,548 |
Oh, I'd let players do this.
Then I'd introduce them to a friend of mine, goes by the name of Tutor. Hee hee. |
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Apr 25 2004, 06:40 AM
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#12
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
It then goes on to say that spirits of high Force (6+) and those close to mankind often become free. You can also roll randomly, but it is not required at all. Note the key words "escapes" and "uncontrolled" seem to preclude willing release as a method. The latter implys full control until the moment of release which is more like using all services than escaping control. If some one releases you from prison it makes it hard to escape. |
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Apr 25 2004, 03:19 PM
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#13
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
Ok, I feel the same as you about escape and go uncontrolled, but a bit ago, I was the only one arguing that position with Talia I.
How about this example? 2 magical types that can conjure spirits. One of them that has a spirit bound to him gets tranq'ed into unconsciousness, D stun. If the spirit goes free, the second mage tries to bind it as before. Or is taking deadly stun not enough to lose control? |
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Apr 25 2004, 09:44 PM
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#14
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Oh, I'd make it clear to the players that if they slip up, this spirit is going to be totally cheesed-off, and not only is a good candidate for going free; but going free with, say, the Home Ground and Hidden Life advantages, spontaneously develop into a Great Form, and going buck nutty on the mages involved. The GM gets to decide if a free spirit sticks around or rabidly attacks its summoner, after all. I'd say the spirit would go on the attack, and may suddenly develop a few new nasty powers. That threat alone should suffice. |
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Apr 25 2004, 11:51 PM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
start having elementals earn karma. that way, if/when they do go free, you can power them up based on how long they've been around.
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