Lilt
Apr 24 2004, 09:55 PM
OK. Two mages have summoned a coupple of foce 3 fire elementals and used them to do their dirty work. Both elementals have only one service left when the mages have an idea. Why don't they try to control eachother's spirits?
One mage either willingly dosen't resist, puts himself on some penalties out, or otherwise minimises his chances of remaining in control of his spirit. The other mage easily gains 3 more successes than the current owner, thus now controls the spirit with 3 services to his name. They reciproate for exchanging control of the elemental owned by the 2nd mage.
Now both mages control fire elementals with 3 services, where before they only had one service, and they've not spent one nuyen on conjuring materials.
Comments?
Jason Farlander
Apr 24 2004, 10:02 PM
Well... so far, all I'm seeing is that the original mage controlling the elemental "may" resist the attempt to steal control, not that they automatically resist or that they must resist the attempt.
While my first reaction is "wow thats awesome," it is also quite obviously broken.
Edit: perhaps there should be a restriction such that the mage stealing control can only obtain a number of services equal to one less than were owed to the original summoner?
Kanada Ten
Apr 24 2004, 10:26 PM
Add Drain to the test, and then it is near identical to Adding Services.
Backgammon
Apr 24 2004, 11:42 PM
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| Add Drain to the test, and then it is near identical to Adding Services. |
Adding services still requires the use of costly summoning materials in the case of elementals, while doing the hot-patatoe thing, would not.
Dashifen
Apr 25 2004, 01:29 AM
In addition, this could really piss of the elemental. Then, if its controlling magician loses control, and it gets the option to, I'd have the elemental slap its controller and the other mage if I could pull it off.
Backgammon
Apr 25 2004, 01:39 AM
| QUOTE (Dashifen) |
| In addition, this could really piss of the elemental. Then, if its controlling magician loses control, and it gets the option to, I'd have the elemental slap its controller and the other mage if I could pull it off. |
Yup, totally. Elementals probably take a dim view on being cheated into more services than they should have to. But anyway, this isn't a tactic I'd allow anyway. It's just a broken rule loophole.
Kanada Ten
Apr 25 2004, 01:44 AM
Yeah. Saying "One can not garnish more services than the Elemental owed at the time of transfer," keeps it both useful while eliminating any use of pass the potato.
tisoz
Apr 25 2004, 04:06 AM
Even worse (better?), what if each mage freed the elemental early? The Elemental has 3 dice to get one 4, anf go free. Becoming, effectively, a force 4 spirit (Force 3 + 1 spirit energy.) The non-releasing mage goes on an astral quest (rating 4) to learn its true name, then binds it with a single success on a conjuring test vs TN 4. Unlimited services.
Kanada Ten
Apr 25 2004, 04:09 AM
Is the roll for going Free required? I thought it suggested the GM decide.
Personally, I don't allow spirits that are released from service early and willingly by the summoner even a chace to go free. They depart for home.
tisoz
Apr 25 2004, 04:49 AM
That's the rule.
A GM can decide to ignore any rule.
Kakkaraun
Apr 25 2004, 06:12 AM
Oh, I'd let players do this.
Then I'd introduce them to a friend of mine, goes by the name of Tutor.
Hee hee.
Kanada Ten
Apr 25 2004, 06:40 AM
| QUOTE |
Magic in the Shadows Page 113
When a spirit escapes its summoner's control, it may choose to remain in the physical world rather than returning to its metaplane of origin. Spirits who make this choice are called free spirits |
| QUOTE |
Magic in the Shadows Page 113
Whenever a spirit becomes uncontrolled, the gamemaster may decide whether it becomes free. |
It then goes on to say that spirits of high Force (6+) and those close to mankind often become free. You can also roll randomly, but it is not required at all. Note the key words "escapes" and "uncontrolled" seem to preclude willing release as a method. The latter implys full control until the moment of release which is more like using all services than escaping control. If some one releases you from prison it makes it hard to escape.
tisoz
Apr 25 2004, 03:19 PM
Ok, I feel the same as you about escape and go uncontrolled, but a bit ago, I was the only one arguing that position with Talia I.
How about this example? 2 magical types that can conjure spirits. One of them that has a spirit bound to him gets tranq'ed into unconsciousness, D stun. If the spirit goes free, the second mage tries to bind it as before.
Or is taking deadly stun not enough to lose control?
Cain
Apr 25 2004, 09:44 PM
| QUOTE |
| In addition, this could really piss of the elemental. Then, if its controlling magician loses control, and it gets the option to, I'd have the elemental slap its controller and the other mage if I could pull it off. |
Oh, I'd make it clear to the players that if they slip up, this spirit is going to be totally cheesed-off, and not only is a good candidate for going free; but going free with, say, the Home Ground and Hidden Life advantages, spontaneously develop into a Great Form, and going buck nutty on the mages involved.
The GM gets to decide if a free spirit sticks around or rabidly attacks its summoner, after all. I'd say the spirit would go on the attack, and may suddenly develop a few new nasty powers. That threat alone should suffice.
mfb
Apr 25 2004, 11:51 PM
start having elementals earn karma. that way, if/when they do go free, you can power them up based on how long they've been around.
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