Time to break out the Sunscreen 350 Options

[Stahlseele]

@Umidori
In NA Folklore, the banshee is little more than a ghoul.

[Temperance]

I guess I just feel like it's lazy and unimaginative to deny Infected as a potential source of story and character depth, and instead merely relegate them to "monster-of-the-week murder-targets". Okay, so you just flat out want to have an unambiguous bad guy? Well first off, that's kind of shallow NPC design - ideally a good villain isn't just a 1 dimensional walking target to shoot at. But secondly, if you're really set on making someone a cut and dry "bad guy", do it via behavior, not identity. A villain isn't a villain because he's a Nazi, he's a villain because he's a Nazi who was one of the few who actually knew about the camps, and had no qualms or reservations about them whatsoever. Joe Corporate isn't a monster merely because he's corporate, he's a monster because he sleeps well at night even though he's responsible for ruining countless lives. Yakuza-san isn't despicable because he's a yakuza, it's because he sees 12 year old girls in terms of bunraku profits, with their being an outlet for his personal fetishes just being a perk.

I'm a little bit irritated that you took my comment out of context and set it up as a target to comment on shallow NPC design as if I was only talking about two dimensional NPCs.

Let's revisit my actual statement in context: On the one hand, Infected make more sense as NPCs. Whether monster-of-the-week murder-target or 'how is this thing an exec and didn't become a science experiment', they make nice inhuman targets for your paid psychotic murderhobos to kill without sweating the morality of the act. (Assuming they care about the moral implications of wetwork at all.) Who cares if he had(has) a family? He's a bloodsucking fiend, not a glittery romantic stalker boyfriend.

We have two examples here on either end of the spectrum. We have the monster-of-the-week murder-target two dimensional thing. We also have the exec who balances being an exec and infected, while escaping notice he's a (literal) monster. I agree the first is shallow. It's meant to be, which is why I used the words I did and hyphenated them to emphasize I was doing it. As for the second, if a vampire or ghoul or any other Infected can last as an exec long enough for someone to hire runners to take him out, the exec's infection is probably secondary to his evil corp ways. Or he's actually a nice guy and someone found out about him being a literal monster, but can't take direct action. Either way, there's more going on there than just two dimensional 'monster in the dark' fare. Additionally, I refer to the Infected NPC's family. If he maintains a relationship with his family, again, he's probably not "evil because he's a blood sucker." The final statement is an opinion the PC might hold, not an indictment of the NPC's monstrosity. (Oh, it's also a take that to Twilight. 'Cause glittery vampires. Warning, that contains a TV Tropes link.)

But aside from that minor quibble, I mostly agree with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-Temperance

[Umidori]

I apologize, I didn't actually realize what you meant by 'how is this thing an exec and didn't become a science experiment'. Thanks for clarifying. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

~Umi

[Umidori]

@Umidori
In NA Folklore, the banshee is little more than a ghoul.

Are you perhaps referencing one of the various "White Lady" legends? I'm not terribly well versed on Native American/First Nations lore, so I don't know of any other banshee-like beings out there that would fit the your description, but given how many different variations of the White Lady appear throughout the United States, I can easily see them being somewhat syncretic with native myth and culture.

~Umi

[Sendaz]

On a related note, would you feel Elemental Light should get the allergy damage bonus versus those allergic to sunlight?

I would be inclined to say yes as its magical light, but I could see the argument against as well.

After all I do not recall if an Ares laser gets a bonus to its damage if used on a vampire and one could argue that the Light effect is just concentrated light without being Sunlight.

As most of those sensitive to sunlight are at least Moderate that would be a +2 dice difference, +4 for Severe allergy.

[Lantzer]

I honestly don't get the whole "they're monsters, kill them before they kill us!" thing, at least among the playerbase.

I always figured it was partially instinctive. Humanity became the top animal on the planet by the simple expedient of wiping out everything that was a threat. It's built in at a low level. If a wolf carries off a child from your village - form a hunting party and kill it. Even in these days of ecological awareness and "animals are our cute and fluffy freinds" education in the 1st World, any animal that is suspected to be a maneater is destroyed at first opportunity.

People are more afraid of being killed and eaten than just killed. Thats why JAWS did so well. And any number of other movies which exploit this idea.

And I'm okay with that. We've come a long way from fearing the noises in the night.

PS:Dragons - your time is coming... You had the advantage of surprise, but I'll bet Human Nation sees you as a bigger threat than the Metas and is working on something. The Earth is OURS.

[Bull]

Anything that sees me as food? It's a monster. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Kill it with fire.

[CanRay]

Anything that sees me as food? It's a monster. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Kill it with fire.

Especially if it sees him as one meal!

[Bull]

Especially if it sees him as one meal!

And that's a BIG fraggin' meal, lemme tell you!

[CanRay]

And that's a BIG fraggin' meal, lemme tell you!

Would that make Tauren an Appetizer?

[Irion]

On a related note, would you feel Elemental Light should get the allergy damage bonus versus those allergic to sunlight?

I would be inclined to say yes as its magical light, but I could see the argument against as well.

After all I do not recall if an Ares laser gets a bonus to its damage if used on a vampire and one could argue that the Light effect is just concentrated light without being Sunlight.

As most of those sensitive to sunlight are at least Moderate that would be a +2 dice difference, +4 for Severe allergy.

I would like it. Having a priest of christian background with a holy light spell...But I would settle for a reduced damage bonus or light spells would become the "monster killer". But on the other hand, it depnds on how damage spells are now handled. If you really get a stone, paper, scissor kind of thing, light against "monsters" would be a great idea. (This would make it viable to have more than one spell ....)

In generall I am hoping for more diversed secondary effects...
Kind of like the mass effect ammunition boni..
Edit: And I just found out that it looks like they did it...

[CanRay]

I once had Jesus show up and beat my group with his own Cross. (Spirit of Man).

[DamHawke]

How'd they handle getting beat by J.C?

And that's a BIG fraggin' meal, lemme tell you!

Maybe that's what Sendaz's ghoul sized tupperware really is for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Sendaz]

And that's a BIG fraggin' meal, lemme tell you!

Ork.. The Other White Meat?

[Sendaz]

How'd they handle getting beat by J.C?

Better yet, how do you explain it to anyone afterwards? If you lost you got kicked by a carpenter's son. If you win you just ticked off the local church and any devouts.

Maybe that's what Sendaz's ghoul sized tupperware really is for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Oh you would be surprised at the uses I have found for that over the years.