Questions on 2nd edition books Options

[Blackbird71]

Hello, you may remember me from this thread here.

In short, I've been working up a collection of older books (mostly 3rd, some 2nd edition) for running a game with the older style and feel. Anyway, I recently found a stack of used 1st and 2nd edition books at a local used book/movie/music store. I grabbed several of them I recognized, but I wasn't sure about some of the others, and I was hoping some of the more experienced players here might be able to help clarify a few things so I know whether I should go back for more:

Is a 2nd editon Shadowrun Companion (FASA 7905) going to be any use for a primarily 3rd edition rules game (especially if I already have the 3rd edition Shadowrun Companion)?

There were what appeared to be both a 1st and 2nd edition available of "The Grimoire" available (FASA 7106 and 7903); if I had the 2nd edition, would there be anything useful in the 1st? Or, since I'm mostly sticking to 3rd, should I even bother with either?

1st editions Paranormal Animals of North America (7105) and Virtual Realities (7107) - any use, or should I be looking for later edition equivalents?

Lastly, any thoughts on the adventure "Double Exposure?" It's one of the few I've come across I hadn't heard much about.

Anyway, sorry to be a pest with these questions, but thanks in advance!

[Not of this Worl...]

Is a 2nd editon Shadowrun Companion (FASA 7905) going to be any use for a primarily 3rd edition rules game (especially if I already have the 3rd edition Shadowrun Companion)?

No.

There were what appeared to be both a 1st and 2nd edition available of "The Grimoire" available (FASA 7106 and 7903); if I had the 2nd edition, would there be anything useful in the 1st? Or, since I'm mostly sticking to 3rd, should I even bother with either?

If you don't have 3rd edition's "Magic in the Shadows" then I would recommend Grimoire 2nd edition for initiation rules and a few other extras.

1st editions Paranormal Animals of North America (7105) and Virtual Realities (7107) - any use, or should I be looking for later edition equivalents?

The paranormal animals books are both highly useful. 3rd edition got a crude "Critters" supplement but had no good details on paranormal critters like those books provide. Virtual Realities is a mixed bag. Fiction wise it is totally awesome and inspirational. You can't read and believe it didn't inspire the Matrix movies. Rules wise though it is worthless for third edition, not even remotely relevant.

Lastly, any thoughts on the adventure "Double Exposure?" It's one of the few I've come across I hadn't heard much about.

I never considered that one worth running, but this many years later I honestly can't remember off hand why.

[Larsine]

Is a 2nd editon Shadowrun Companion (FASA 7905) going to be any use for a primarily 3rd edition rules game (especially if I already have the 3rd edition Shadowrun Companion)?

I used to have a webpage with the differences between the 2nd edition and the 3rd edition companion. I still have it, but the layout looks horrible, hope it helps:
SR2 - SR3
SR Companion: Beyond the Shadows - Revised for 3rd Ed.
Cover: Troll Mercenary by Tom Baxa - Cover: Running Short by John Zeleznik
Table of Contents: 2nd edition style - 3rd edition style
Introduction - Changed
Filling in the Blanks - Changed and renamed to “Developer’s Say”
In Their Own Words - Dropped
Character Creation - Same
The Concept Example - Dropped
More than an Archtype - Same
Start with the Story - Same
The Sky’s the Limit - Same
Something to Consider - Same
Master Character Creation Table - Dropped
The Numbers - Dropped
Race and Magic - Dropped
Attributes - Dropped
Skills - Dropped
Resources - Dropped
Finishing Touches Example - Dropped
- “Twenty Questions” (From SR2) added
Character Creation Options - Dropped
Altering Race Priorities - Dropped
Altering Magic Priorities - Dropped
Altering Attributes and Skill Priorities - Dropped
Altering Resource Priorities - Dropped
Altering Rating Limits - Dropped
Sum-to-10 System - Dropped
Point-Based Design - Renamed to “Point-Based Character Design System”
- Points changed: Recommended maximum 120 points
- Race: Dwarf/Ork 5 points, Metavariant +5 Points, Ghoul +10 Points, Otaku +30 Points, Shapeshifter 25 Points
- Magic: Full Magician 30 (25 spell points), Aspected Magician 25 points (35 spell points), Adept 25 (Power Points = Magic Rating), Extra Spell Points 25.000¥, 5 Less Spell Points gives 1 Build Point
- Attributes: Recommended limit of maximum 60 Build Points
- Resources: 500¥ -5 Points, 5.000¥ 0 Points, 20.000¥ 5 Points
- New example added, old example dropped
Edges and Flaws - Same
Purchasing Edges and Flaws - Added paragraph “Edges and Flaws During Game Play”
Limitations - Same
Eliminating Flaws - Same
Designing Edges and Flaws - Same
Attribute Edges - Bonus Attribute Point: 2
Skill Edges and Flaws - Aptitude: 4, Bonus Skill Point: dropped, Computer Illiterate: -3 (from Rigger 2)
Physical Edges and Flaws - Allergy: -2 to -5 (correction), Ambidexterity: dropped, High Pain Tolerance: 2 per box, Natural Immunity: 1 or 3 from Cyberpirates), Night Blindness: -2 (-1 for riggers or deckers), Night Vision: 2 (1 for riggers or deckers), Toughness: 3, Water Sprite: 1 per ability improvement (from Cyberpirates)
Mental Edges and Flaws - College Education: 1 (effect changed), High School Education: dropped, Illiterate: -3, Perceptive: 3, Phobia: -2 to –5 (correction), Sea Legs: -2 (from Cyberpirates), Sea Madness: -4 (From Cyberpirates), Sensitive Neural Structure: -2 or -4 (from Rigger 2), Simsense Vertigo: -2 (-4 for riggers or deckers) (from Rigger 2), Spike Resistance: 2 or 4 (from Rigger 2), Technical School Education (effect changed), Uneducated: -2 (effect changed)
Social Edges and Flaws - Addiction: dropped, At Ease: dropped, Braggart: -1 (from Cyberpirates), Connected: 3 or 5 (from Cyberpirates), Friendly Face: 1 (New), Liar: -2 (from Cyberpirates)
Magical Edges and Flaws - Astral Chameleon/Astral Impression: 2/-2 (new), Bad Karma: moved to Miscellaneous Edges and Flaws, Bonus Force Point: dropped, Magical Talent: dropped, Poor Link: 2 (as Magical Talent (Poor Link)), Spirit Affinity/Spirit Bane: 2/-2 (new)
- “Matrix Edges and Flaws” added: Codeslinger/Codeblock: 2/-1 (new), Cracker/Choker: 4/-2 (new), Jack Itch: -1 (new), Natural Hardening: 4 (new), Scorched: -1 (new)
Miscellaneous Edges and Flaws - Cortex/Cranial Bomb: changed to Cranial Bomb, Cursed Karma: -6 (new), Daredevil: 3 (new), Gremlins: -1 to -4 (from Rigger 2), Mysterious Cyberware/Bioware: changed to Mysterious Cyberware, Pirate Family: 3 (from Cyberpirates), Registered Equipment: dropped, State-of-the-Art Model: dropped, Vehicle Empathy: 2 (from Rigger 2)
New Character Types - Changed slightly
- “Ghouls” added
Creating Shapeshifters - Changed
Shapeshifter Advantages - Changed
Shapeshifter Disadvantages - Changed
Metahuman Variants - Changed slightly:
- Cyclops: +5 B, -1 Q, +6 S, , -2 I, -2 C, +2 T# ranged
- Koborokuru: As dwarf, except Qx3 running, Edge: 1 and 3 point Natural Immunety
- Fomori: +4 B, -1 Q, +3 S, -2 I, +1 Reach, Thermographic Vision
- Menehune: +2 B, +1 S, +1 W, Thermographic Vision, +2 B vs. diseases and toxins
- Hobgoblin: +2 B, +2 S, -1 C, Low-light Vision
- Giant: +5 B, -1 Q, +5 S, -2 I, -2 C, +1 Reach, Thermographic Vision
- Gnome: +1 B, +1 S, +2 W, Thermographic Vision
- Oni: +2 B, +2 S, -1 C, -1 I, +1 W, Low-light Vision
- Wakyambi: +2 C, +1 W, Low-light Vision
- Ogre: +3 B, +2 S, -1 I
- Minotaur: +4 B, -1 Q, +3 S, -1 I, -1 C, Thermographic Vision, +1 Reach, Dermal Armor (1)
- Satyr: +3 B, +2 S, -1 Qx4, -1 I, -1 C, +1 W, Low-light Vision
- Night One: +2 Q, +2 C, Mild allergy to sunlight
- Dryad: -1 B, +1 Q, -1 S, +3 C, Mild allergy to urban areas, Limited Animal Empathy
Metahuman Albinism - Same
Skills and Training - Same
Revised Skill Web - Dropped
Revised Default Rules - Dropped
Default Skill/Attribute Limits - Dropped
Task-Appropriate Default Skills - Dropped
Partial Defaulting - Dropped
Defaulting from Concentrations/Specializations - Dropped
Optional Dice Pools - Dropped
Athletics Pool - Dropped
Social Pool - Dropped
Dodge Pool - Dropped
- “Using Athletics” added (revised from “Athletic Tests” I FoF)
- “Climbing” added (revised from FoF)
- “Falling” added (revised from FoF)
- “Escape Artist” added (new)
- “Jumping” added (revised from FoF)
- “Lifting/Throwing” added (revised from FoF)
- “Running” added (revised from FoF)
- “Fatigue” added (new)
- “Swimming” added (revised from FoF and Cyberpirates)
- “Holding One’s Breath” added (revised from FoF)
- “Treading Water” added (revised from Cyberpirates)
- “Floating” added (revised from Cyberpirates)
Optional Training Rules - Same
Skill-Improvement Training - Changed and renamed “Skill Training Time”
Learning a New Skill - Same
Do-It-Yourself Method Example - Dropped
Training with an Instructor - Changed slightly, some examples dropped
Training Days - Same
Improving Attributes - Same
Now to Hire a Shadowrunner - One paragraph added at the beginning
Contacts and Enemies - Same
Maximizing Contacts - Changed
Contact Levels - Dropped
Level 1 Contact - Dropped
Level 2 Contact - Dropped
Level 3 Contact - Dropped
Contact Creation Cost - Dropped
Contact Upkeep - Same
Improving Contact Levels - Same
Friends of a Friend - Same
Using FOFs - Same
Waiting for the Goods - Same
The Walls Have Ears - Same
Special Contacts - Same
Members of Clubs and Oragnizations - Same
Fixers - Same
International Contacts - Same
Shadowland - Same
Playing Contacts - Dropped
Favor for a Friend - Dropped
Contact Knowledge - Same
Spilling the Beans - Same
Enemies - Same
Creating Enemies - Same
Enemy Characteristics - Same
Using Enemies - Same
Death at the Enemy’s Hand - Same
Killing Enemies - Same
- “New Contacts” added
- “Corporate Contacts” added
- “Government Contacts” added
- “Street Contacts” added
- “Underworld Contacts” added
- “Media Contacts” added
- “Amerindian Tribesperson” added
- “Arms Dealer” added
- “Bounty Hunter” added
- “Company Man” added
- “Corporate Wage Slave” added
- “Gang Leader” added
- “Mob Soldier” added
- “Paramedic” added
- “Plainclothes Cop” added
- “Reporter” added
- “Snitch” added
- “Street Cop” added
- “Street Doc” added
Advanced Rules - Same
Karma - Same
Awarding Karma: A Clarification - Dropped
Balancing Karma and Nuyen - Same
Karma and the Amoral Campaign - Same
Favors and Markers - Same
Karma Pools - Changed
Hand of God - Dropped
Magic - Dropped
Initiation - Dropped
Unpredictable Hazards of Magic - Dropped
Maintaining the Mystery of Magic - Dropped
Creating Prime Runners - Same
Inferior - Same
Equal - Same
Superior - Same
Superhuman - Same
Ultimate - Same
State of the Art - Same
Lifestyle Cost Reductions - Same
Cyberware Costs - Changed slightly
Falling behind the SOTA Curve - Same, but moved down under “SOTA Advancement”
Determining the Field of SOTA Advancement - Same
SOTA Advancement - Same
Roleplaying the SOTA - Same
Dead-End Tech Option - Same
Retirement - Same
Second Careers - Same
Defecting Team Members - Changed, expanded and moved up under “Karma Pools”
Integrating New Team Members - Same
Optional Rules - Dropped
Availability - Dropped
Facedown Tests - Dropped
Intimidation Concentration - Dropped
Perception and Stealth - Dropped
Combat - Dropped
Magic - Dropped
- “Additional Security Systems” added
- “Trip Beams” added (from Corporate Security Handbook)
- “Pressure Mesh and Pads” added (from Corporate Security Handbook)
- “Vibration Detectors” added (from Corporate Security Handbook)
- “Gas Delivery Systems” added (new)
- “Chemical Detection Systems” added (new)
- “DocWagon” added (new)
Running the Game - Same
The Role of the Gamemaster - Same
Breaking the Rules - Same
Keys to Gamemastering Success - Dropped
Be Informed! - Dropped
Be Knowledgeable! - Dropped
Be Fair! - Dropped
Be Realistic! - Dropped
Be Flexible! - Dropped
Be Tough! - Dropped
Be Kind! - Dropped
Keys to a Good Adventure - Same
The Premise - Same
The Goal - Same
The Opposition - Same
Complications - Same
Plotting a Shadowrun Adventure - Changed slightly
Rest of the book - Same
- “List of Actions” table added
- “Character Sheets” updatet to 3rd edition style

There were what appeared to be both a 1st and 2nd edition available of "The Grimoire" available (FASA 7106 and 7903); if I had the 2nd edition, would there be anything useful in the 1st? Or, since I'm mostly sticking to 3rd, should I even bother with either?

Get Magic in the Shadows instead, it's the same but expanded and for 3rd edition.

1st editions Paranormal Animals of North America (7105) and Virtual Realities (7107) - any use, or should I be looking for later edition equivalents?

Paranormal Animals is great for the descriptions and drawings of the critters. You can get Critters in PDF for free with the stats for 3rd edition from Battleshop or DrivethruRPG.

VR1 is only good for the shortstory. The rules will be no good for SR3.

Lastly, any thoughts on the adventure "Double Exposure?" It's one of the few I've come across I hadn't heard much about.

I liked it, but is has some Bugs in it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Moirdryd]

If you're having a Decker in the team who really wants to get into it then Matrix is invaluable (Target Matrix was also handy, depending on how deep you want to use it). If not then it may still be handy as it does cover things like Non-decker uses of the Matrix (although you can simply use mundane computer tests to keep things flowing.) I do have a list somewhere that I put together of Basic Cyberterminal + programs for the Non-decker to use for Matrix searching etc including a shorthand of what you need to perform basic function and so forth. Including costs for the base package in Nuyen and advancement options. Will try and find those out.

Magic in the Shadows covers pretty much everything the Grimoire did with a ruleset that works better into the SR3 system. Rigger3 is of course handy for Riggers rules wise but Rigger gives you pretty pictures of the vehicles.

[Blackbird71]

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful info and feedback so far.

I used to have a webpage with the differences between the 2nd edition and the 3rd edition companion. I still have it, but the layout looks horrible, hope it helps:
...

It looks like there were a lot of sections in the 2nd edition companion which were removed in the third. Is this largely because they were made obsolete by the 3rd edition rules, or were they covered in other 3rd edition material, or were they just useless fluff? Or are any of those secions something that might still be useful, if only from a flavor perspective?

I should probably mention that these books are pretty cheap (the adventures are all about $3 each, source books $5-$6), so even if something is only paritally useful, at those prices it may be worth adding to my library.

[binarywraith]

There's hno such thing as useless fluff.

The 2e books were a lot better about fluff in general, actually. The book I'd most recommend to you is the Neo Anarchist's Guide To Real Life.

[Blackbird71]

There's hno such thing as useless fluff.

The 2e books were a lot better about fluff in general, actually. The book I'd most recommend to you is the Neo Anarchist's Guide To Real Life.

That's great and all, and I may look into it, but in this thread, I'm asking specifically about a small selection of books currently available at a local store. Unfortunately, that's not one of them.

You're right though, I shouldn't say "useless" fluff, as I do appreciate a lot of the background and flavor found between the rules; it's one of the reasons I decided to track down old SR2/3 stuff instead of starting fresh with SR4.