Hacking Cyberware, Wargarbbbbbbl RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE Options

[Tashiro]

Pirate the software, load it wholly onto the device, tell the device never to connect to the Matrix. If important updates come out, I'll do the same with them.

That's a good answer, and would require (someone) to do a run on the corporation to get their hands on the full program, which may be integrated into other programs as well, just in case someone does try to do this. And once that's done, you'll be paying a pretty nuyen for the 'cracked' version. And then having to do a run every time there's a patch? That'd certainly be a PITA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But yeah, viable. And I'm sure something like this is probably going to be in the 5E version of Unwired.

[Patrick Goodman]

If this is the kind of 'logic' you use in writing supplements, man, I sure hope you aren't taking out any major loans banking on that paycheck.

To be fair, no one in their right mind would GIVE us a loan based on our freelancer paychecks....

[Tashiro]

We've been over that several times, so how about the other way round for a change? Instead of vaguely preaching something about future technology and how awesome it might be, tell us what hypothetical future technology will make the this concept work for a) the telescoping baton and b) internal air tank.

Already did. You buy hardware. Software is 100% in corporation hands. You want to do something which requires software to operate, you need to be connected to the corporation's computers. So, baton. If you're not connected, you have to manually unlock your baton. If you're connected, you can think / look at specific part of GUI / voice command to unlock the baton. This protects the corporation's programs from being hacked and modded, allows them to keep track of user statistics, and allows them to do hotpatches to every purchased item in a single sweep.

There are things right now that do this. So this isn't really a stretch.

[Mäx]

There are things right now that do this. So this isn't really a stretch.

It is huge stretch when the corp do that retroactivly to gear that was sold years ago.
I quess they finally cracked how to time travel.

[Draco18s]

You're aware that all your communications are being monitored by the NSA this very minute, right? The NSA can even track your cell phone when it's off. They can get into your email and social networking accounts at will. Shouldn't you have "addressed" that, in the same way your characters should have "addressed" their every Matrix security vulnerability?

Actually they aren't and can't.

The current news item you're referring to does not give the NSA that much data nor does it target everyone.

[KarmaInferno]

@KarmaInferno

So corps now store parts of their software in the matrix as opposed to on the device. What are you going to do about it?
Your point would correspond to point 1).

If that were true my tripod would be completely be unable to deploy without internet access. Not just operate slower.

As it is, I push a button and it deploys with a complex action. I turn on the matrix antenna and it deploys with a free action.

Hell, a motorized tripod shouldn't need any electronics at all. And putting electronics in wouldn't make the motor operate any faster or slower.

Only about a third of the listed bonuses do anything that would require significant processing or external data access. The rest are either "needs remote connection", "needs wireless energy but doesen't actually use it to communicate", or "turns on faster".

The whole 'distributed processing' idea isn't a bad one, but most of the listed bonuses would have no good reason to benefit from that.


-k

[nezumi]

Wow, so in SR5, EVERYTHING is like the Simcity 5 debacle?

[binarywraith]

To be fair, no one in their right mind would GIVE us a loan based on our freelancer paychecks....

Hey, I feel you there. I'm a pastry chef, suffering for my art is pretty standard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[binarywraith]

Actually they aren't and can't.

The current news item you're referring to does not give the NSA that much data nor does it target everyone.

Even if it gave them all the data in the world, there literally isn't enough processing power in the world to correlate it in real-time.

This is the thing that makes me dislike the whole 'cloud' concept of why cyberware needs to be online most. If GOD can clearly afford (and fit into a reasonable area, as in less than several square miles of server farm) the nigh-impossible levels of processing required to correlate the entire matrix in order to respond to real time threats, then clearly there's no reason your cyberware can't have enough processing power onboard to do what it is designed to do.

[Patrick Goodman]

Hey, I feel you there. I'm a pastry chef, suffering for my art is pretty standard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

As long as I just deposit the checks and don't make the mistake of calculating the per-word rate that a couple of these projects bring in, I can probably stay marginally sane.

Marginally.

[Tashiro]

It is huge stretch when the corp do that retroactivly to gear that was sold years ago.
I quess they finally cracked how to time travel.

Or, they simply no longer support the older models. You know, the stuff that ran on the old Matrix? So they're a bit buggy, or don't quite work as well as they could, since they don't communicate with the new drivers and software as well.

[apple]

Well, then it should run as usual. Because it was not buggy one year ago.

So what is it? Retroactive redesign of the entire technological system, that DNI is incredible slow and wifi incredible fast or that smartlink was always giving +2 limit and never made it easier to hit something? Or an ingame update which means there are old items (who still continue to work) and new matrix online items? You can´t have both offline reaction enhancers working with offline wired reflexes or not working together while being offline.

SYL

[Not of this Worl...]

Or, they simply no longer support the older models. You know, the stuff that ran on the old Matrix? So they're a bit buggy, or don't quite work as well as they could, since they don't communicate with the new drivers and software as well.

Cyberware (with a few reasonable exceptions) DIDN'T run on the old Matrix. That is the point. 2050-2070 a cyberspur didn't connect to the Matrix at all and was powered by bio-energy. Now in 2070 to even control the spur in your own body you need a matrix connection and power from the matrix for it. The action mechanic didn't change between editions, the gear simply got worse to support a new ham-fisted game mechanic.

I know some of you are really invested in trying to have this stuff make sense, but sometimes it doesn't and you need to just decide to play the game rather than totally crack what little suspension of disbelief there is in some of the changes.

[Sengir]

Already did. You buy hardware. Software is 100% in corporation hands.

Because the "thing" on the baton which receives the commands from the corp server is not software? Nope, you have just replace software which receives commands with software which receives commands, no advantage there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And what exactly stops my hacker from spoofing commands from the corp server to get that functionality without the corp server?

[Cochise]

Now in 2070 to even control the spur in your own body you need a matrix connection and power from the matrix for it. The action mechanic didn't change between editions, the gear simply got worse to support a new ham-fisted game mechanic.

To an extend you're confusing the cyber implant "spur" with it's not implanted version which could be extracted via DNI in SR4 just as if it were cyber and now suddenly requires matrix access.
It's still a far fetch of course.

[Shinxy]

You're aware of how paranoid your point sounds, right?

At any event, my life and vocation do not depend on me being a cipher in the machine. I'm not a shadowrunner. On the other hand, my characters *are*, and their very survival depends on addressing every last security vulnerability.

Um, it isn't paranoid if it's the truth. Do you even read the news?

[KCKitsune]

To anyone complaining that cyberware being hackable is a security hole that anyone with two brain cells to rub together would be able to address:

Do you use a cell phone? Do you use the internet?

Apples

If you think your character is a special snowflake who can figure out a way to be magically immune to cyberware hacking in the Shadowrun universe, you're a utopian. And Shadowrun is a dystopian universe.

Oranges

Shinxy, your argument is so apples and oranges that it beggars the imagination. If, in real life, I had access to Shadowrun level cyberware I would most certainly burned out the wifi. I would spend the extra money to get a datajack so if I need to do a firmware update I can do it via a wire.

Any sane 'Runner would TURN. OFF. THE. WIRELESS! Why would they want to have someone hack their cyberware? I mean please tell me one good reason to have your cybereyes wirelessly broadcasting. Before you say tacnet, a tacnet is run on your commlink and your commlink is your PAN.

[Draco18s]

Cyberware (with a few reasonable exceptions) DIDN'T run on the old Matrix. That is the point. 2050-2070 a cyberspur didn't connect to the Matrix at all and was powered by bio-energy. Now in 2070 to even control the spur in your own body you need a matrix connection and power from the matrix for it. The action mechanic didn't change between editions, the gear simply got worse to support a new ham-fisted game mechanic.

And they retconned things to say that it's always worked like that.

I'm ok with retcons when the retcons make sense, but this one just blows my mind.

(If the new rules were actually any good then the retcon would be OK).

[Cain]

Um, it isn't paranoid if it's the truth. Do you even read the news?

Yes, many sources. Including reputable ones which show that the NSA is not GOD.

At any event, the point is that shadowrunners, whose very existence is based on anonymity, would hit every trick when it comes to staying below the radar.

[cndblank]

That's a good answer, and would require (someone) to do a run on the corporation to get their hands on the full program, which may be integrated into other programs as well, just in case someone does try to do this. And once that's done, you'll be paying a pretty nuyen for the 'cracked' version. And then having to do a run every time there's a patch? That'd certainly be a PITA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But yeah, viable. And I'm sure something like this is probably going to be in the 5E version of Unwired.

You mean with all the deckers out there, there are not multiple Warz groups going out and reverse engineering the software?
Or technomacers going deep in to the resonance realms to find a clean copy of the source code?
Or the military/rescue workers demanding the Corp provide the source code because on the battlefield/or in the middle of a natural disaster you can't connect to the Matrix?
Or just someone that wants to be ready for the next Matrix Crash?

Let alone a large body of older "public domain" software that while not SOTA (say max rating is 4) has been scrubbed clean for years and is a fraction of the price of the latest Corp software?

If there is a large enough programmer/decker community to provide deckers the information they need to create their highly illegal decks then there will just as large a body creating pirated and public domain software.

I mean look how long it takes for a cracked version of the latest game patch to show up today.

[cndblank]

I'm ok with retcons when the retcons make sense, but this one just blows my mind.

There was a clear reason Dikote got retconed out.
And I always figured that it just became the new standard (Now with the new Dikote!).

Plus in SR4, melee was changed enough (no counterattack) that they should have just left it in.

This just leaves a gaping hole where the DNI link used to be.

[Stahlseele]

Wow, so in SR5, EVERYTHING is like the Simcity 5 debacle?

oi, low blow! *snickers*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

To anyone complaining that cyberware being hackable is a security hole that anyone with two brain cells to rub together would be able to address:

Do you use a cell phone? Do you use the internet?

Nope... No Cellphones, No Smartphones, No Google Glass, No Tablets, No Nook, etc.
I DO use Internet, but only on One of my 4 PC's, and only for entertainment (Dumpshock mostly).

You know the upside to that? No worries about Viruses or being hacked, ever... Big Win in my book.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Already did. You buy hardware. Software is 100% in corporation hands. You want to do something which requires software to operate, you need to be connected to the corporation's computers. So, baton. If you're not connected, you have to manually unlock your baton. If you're connected, you can think / look at specific part of GUI / voice command to unlock the baton. This protects the corporation's programs from being hacked and modded, allows them to keep track of user statistics, and allows them to do hotpatches to every purchased item in a single sweep.

There are things right now that do this. So this isn't really a stretch.

But you have yet to tell us why the Baton Actually NEEDS software to operate...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Or, they simply no longer support the older models. You know, the stuff that ran on the old Matrix? So they're a bit buggy, or don't quite work as well as they could, since they don't communicate with the new drivers and software as well.

The point is that they should not NEED new drivers to work. The ones they already have work just fine.