Hacking Cyberware, Wargarbbbbbbl RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE Options

[Shadow Knight]

Because Hardy (SR line developer) thinks, that hackers in SR4 were not powerful enough in combat, so to enhance their combat hacking abilities he added online bonuses to items and cyberware, so that is is risk vs reward. You can combine them but then again you can be hacked - or not.

SYL

I know the line editors claim. I want the in universe reason. Why do they suddenly need the matrix now when 3 years earlier they did not. How does adding a round trip to the matrix make you faster than an in body trip? traveling at the speed of light is still going to be slower than an in body trip because as fast as the speed of light is it will never be faster than the short trip in the body.

Because doing what was done in Ghost in the Shell is cool. It was not hacking eyes. Cyberware in Ghost in the Shell does not have a matrix connection. the cyberbrain does. Which is basically like a datajack and memory storage in shadowrun.

You could accomplish everything in Ghost in the shell in Shadowrun 4th near as I can tell. You hack the commlink then work your way into the PAN and if the PAN connects to a datajack you can hack the cyberware.

[binarywraith]

Why? Why do they need a Matrix connection? They did not in the past. Why do they need it now?

Because the line developer was smoking something seriously wicked, and is apparently immune to considering the secondary consequences of design decisions.

Edit : Even above and beyond the arguments of other writers on the product.

[hermit]

If I'm not mistaken, Reaction Enhancers don't have an online bonus. Wired Reflexes are the vulnerable side of the system.

So for Wired and Reaction Enhancers to communicate over the Matrix, only wied reflexes need to be connected to the Matrix? What does Wired connect to, RE's mailbox?

Why? Why do they need a Matrix connection? They did not in the past. Why do they need it now?

Because REASONS and Cloud Computing and shut up and believe in this because otherwise you're a killjoy and Devon Oratz will flame you.

Because doing what was done in Ghost in the Shell is cool. It was not hacking eyes. Cyberware in Ghost in the Shell does not have a matrix connection. the cyberbrain does. Which is basically like a datajack and memory storage in shadowrun.

It is a choke point, too, and usually has at least decent Matrix security. Cyberware in GitS is wired, internally.

[Shadow Knight]

It is a choke point, too, and usually has at least decent Matrix security. Cyberware in GitS is wired, internally.

Because Ghost in the shell is well thought ou by the writer.

Hell they use androids connected to the net that type into internal computers thus keeping out viruses. As viruses cannot copy them selves over the keyboard...

[Umidori]

Theoretically if you were aware of this defense you could design a virus specifically to compromise the androids and have them perform the physical inputs you require, but that's a lot more work and requires a lot more skill and foreknowledge.

Remember folks, there's no such thing as perfect security, but there are plenty of small things you can do that make your system disproportionately much more secure than it otherwise would be.

~Umi

[Nath]

So for Wired and Reaction Enhancers to communicate over the Matrix, only wied reflexes need to be connected to the Matrix? What does Wired connect to, RE's mailbox?

Maybe the cloud is just sending the wired reflexes regular mails that reads "Don't forget to play nice with the Reaction Enhancers and do not overwrite their neural input. Love. The Matrix."

[hermit]

Maybe the cloud is just sending the wired reflexes regular mails that reads "Don't forget to play nice with the Reaction Enhancers and do not overwrite their neural input. Love. The Matrix."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) That sounds plausible, thank you.

Hell they use androids connected to the net that type into internal computers thus keeping out viruses. As viruses cannot copy them selves over the keyboard...

Shirow knows his network security.

Theoretically if you were aware of this defense you could design a virus specifically to compromise the androids and have them perform the physical inputs you require, but that's a lot more work and requires a lot more skill and foreknowledge.

And it would require an insider. Which is doable - it was done with stuxnet on an isolated system too, by putting the virus onto some muppet's usb stick - but it requires a lot more dedication, intelligence and manpower than just tapping into the net, NSA style.

[Sengir]

Reaction enhancers replace parts of the spinal column, not the spinal nerve.

Sure, when fluff talks about increasing the propagation speed of neural impulses, that obviously means the conduit gets changed while the actual conductor stays untouched. And the bone gets painted red, because wires in da red'unz are fastaa!

[Sendaz]

. And the bone gets painted red, because wires in da red'unz are fastaa!

But it's TRUE!!

[apple]

I want the in universe reason.

There is none. It is the same kind of rule like in Monopoly "roll dice, go to jail", nothing more.

However, since then the community (at least the one defending this decision) have come to an agreement, that an all-powerful, super-fast, CLOUD, sponsored, but not controlled by all the Megacorps (everyone can access it, without control, access privileges, hacking or surveillance (besides the usual wifi detection if not running silent)), stores all the software for your items and cyberware and only if you connect to THE CLOUD via wifi you can access your cyberware-software at full capacity.

I am quite sure that you can expect this ... explanation ... in the SR5 matrix book.

SYL

[Elfenlied]

And the bone gets painted red, because wires in da red'unz are fastaa!

Orks should get an additional +2 for doing so.

[DireRadiant]

I think you mean turning it off and later repairing only a few boxes of damage rather than being bricked and repairing more boxes?


This clashes with

Hermit, do you have the book?

If you are choosing to assume I am wrong willfully, then I am not really interested in replying with quoted text from the book. I find that kind of attitude offensive. Picking two sentences from two different places and then assuming there is a third that contradicts them isn't really a nice approach.

If you look at both what I wrote and what you quoted then there is no conflict except for what you choose to see.

The Matrix rules are a system and there are many interacting pieces. Reboot is a specific matrix Action that has the effects I describe.

Matrix Repair is a test as I described as has the effects I mentioned.

[Cochise]

It' more like he's asking for clarification, since the information given by persons who either are freelancers or owners of the O-version seems contradictory ...

[Werewindlefr]

Also are there any counter measures that a pro would have taken to make this harder other then just going offline?
How much time would they buy?

Some jammer stuff, I believe, but ultimately he needs a hacker to protect him, because hacking in Shadowrun is really easy (usually, the defense roll will be something like "willpower + device rating" or something like that depending on the hacker's method). Ratings for top-secret high-tech devices reach 6 - to get higher than that, you need a cyberdeck... or a host.

While I'm more bothered by the fact that it doesn't make sense and that distributed computing is the poorest of excuses in a world of tiny computers with the power to run sapient AIs, it is also true that hacking is exceedingly easy in Shadowrun 5th edition, and that the only good defense against a hacker is a hacker.

[Warlordtheft]

2) Geek the Mage is a tried-and-true in D&D. Disintegrate is a good tool for that.

So were sneak attacks from the theif. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Aaron]

Sure, when fluff talks about increasing the propagation speed of neural impulses, that obviously means the conduit gets changed while the actual conductor stays untouched. And the bone gets painted red, because wires in da red'unz are fastaa!

I'm no biologist, but the spinal cord innervates all over the spinal column, and nerves don't work like wires. It seems to me that a "smart vertebra" could act like a sort of express lane for neural signals.

[hermit]

It' more like he's asking for clarification, since the information given by persons who either are freelancers or owners of the O-version seems contradictory ...

Indeed.

I'm no biologist, but the spinal cord innervates all over the spinal column, and nerves don't work like wires. It seems to me that a "smart vertebra" could act like a sort of express lane for neural signals.

Neural signals don't work like electrical impulses, they're (no kidding) transmitted via reversed polarity of membranes on strings of cells called axons. This is not a very fast way of transmitting information; in fact, neural signals move at a mere 30 to 100 m/s (as opposed to the 300.000.000 m/s in fiberglass cables). Bypassing the spine entirely would probably be faster than some weird infrastructure to make a "smart vertebrum" that would make neural impulses faster through technomagic. So I guess reaction enhancers pick up impulses at some points in the spine (the ganglia maybe?) and put them back into the neural system via DNI at the endocrainum or something.

Now, the question is whether the accelerators replace the signals (to avoid the biological signal arriving a little after the enhanced and cause confusion) or whether they just send the signal ahead because the brain somehow can sort this out - and whether the implant does so passively or actively. Personally, I'm inclined the implant is active, not passive, so in the event of failure there still is the biological spine. Hence, a bricked reaction enhancer would not paralse you, though with malfunctioning neural stimulators of bricked Wired, I would expect epilleptic seizures, and a malfunctioning impulse unit in the endocrainum might well cause the same thing.

I'd say this bears further explanation. Preferrably by smeone who has done Anatomy 101 at some point in their life. The best part about good old Shadowtech was that it was written by someone who actually knew their shit.

[Sengir]

It seems to me that a "smart vertebra" could act like a sort of express lane for neural signals.

Vertebrae are just bones and have nothing to do with transmitting neural signals, other than forming a protective sheath around a big nerve.

[Draco18s]

in fact, neural signals move at a mere 30 to 100 m/s (as opposed to the 300.000.000 m/s in fiberglass cables)

And this is why you live 80ms in the past. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Neurosis]

I want the in universe reason. Why do they suddenly need the matrix now when 3 years earlier they did not. How does adding a round trip to the matrix make you faster than an in body trip? traveling at the speed of light is still going to be slower than an in body trip because as fast as the speed of light is it will never be faster than the short trip in the body.

Why is cyberware like four times as expensive? Why does a manabolt that would once have made you explode now merely tickle?

Not every rules change can be justified in the fluff.

[hermit]

And this is why you live 80ms in the past. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

More actually, there's processing time too, at ~100 m/s.

[apple]

Yes, but you could have justified the "hacking must be justified in combat" rule with "We go after tacnets, online commlinks, remote drone control and radio communication". That is established, that is part of the sixth world, and no one would have complaint. Instead you have used the worst possible route possible by making online silencer - which of course cannot be justified

Being not able to justify your decision is your own inability to make reasonable rules based on the world - not a general problem with the world itself.

SYL

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

I know the line editors claim. I want the in universe reason. Why do they suddenly need the matrix now when 3 years earlier they did not. How does adding a round trip to the matrix make you faster than an in body trip? traveling at the speed of light is still going to be slower than an in body trip because as fast as the speed of light is it will never be faster than the short trip in the body.

Because doing what was done in Ghost in the Shell is cool. It was not hacking eyes. Cyberware in Ghost in the Shell does not have a matrix connection. the cyberbrain does. Which is basically like a datajack and memory storage in shadowrun.

You could accomplish everything in Ghost in the shell in Shadowrun 4th near as I can tell. You hack the commlink then work your way into the PAN and if the PAN connects to a datajack you can hack the cyberware.

I believe that the answer is they they do not suddenly need the Matrix. The canon theme is that (we have always been at war with EastAsia) the non-matrix bonus operation is how things have always operated.

As far as an in-universe explanation.

Here's the short of it: System Architecture is not a simple topic.

There are numerous, numerous, numerous areas where complexity can creep into the design and draw out seemingly "simple" processes. While it is true that the "speed" of a transmission of signals across a physical medium is very likely to exceed the "speed" of that signal through the wireless system of Matrix 3.0, that's really only one of many considerations that must be made.

Most importantly is the mechanisms that allow the Information in question to be torn down to something that may be communicated by physical properties of our universe, and then built back up into something intelligible, reliable, and trustworthy on the distant end. The mechanisms that will, among other things, differentiate between thinking "Open!" from thinking "Fish!" and creating the expected result. Or, for that matter, the algorithms necessary to distinguish background noise, from foreground signal.

(And algorithms that prevent things like the following: "Don't think "Open"... Don't think "Open"... Don't think... Doh!")

Elements that can complicate this process include, but are not limited to, things like error checking, authentication, blah, blah, etc, etc. Additionally, it is not impossible (or sometimes even unlikely) that some implementations will favor the raw processing power of distributed systems over the limited processing power of local systems.

The fundamental mistake is assuming that transmission speed of data is the total, end-all-be-all solution to this discussion.

It is not.

tldr; Retcon + Theorically Possible w/ today's existing knowledge of computing + Underlying Implementations that favor distributed Computing.

Fin.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[Draco18s]

More actually, there's processing time too, at ~100 m/s.

Fun stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTOODPf-iuc

[Draco18s]

Because I never replied to this

How many points is each one worth, since you're keeping track? (In all seriousness, I don't think I actually used True Scotsman, but I could be wrong!)

The poll options. "I am a true fan and support cyberware hacking" and "I shall now exile myself from the internet."