Errata and 2nd printing Options

[Mäx]

Patrick's busting his hump to get a document compiled and okayed by TPTB. Literally from the day we breathed a (very brief) sigh of relief and went "Whew, it's done!" and a final draft was sent off to the printers, we started working on getting this errata together.

I know it's not in the same ballpark as, well, not needing the errata in the first place -- but if nothing else, please believe me when I say that we, the writers, aren't taking the need for errata lightly. We want the end product to be awesome, not just playable, and guys like Patrick are how it's gonna get there.

Sadly this does nothing to help the suckers who end up buying the first printing books.

[Larsine]

To judge by previous releases? The errata will be in Pegasus' German-language printings. Catalyst will happily ignore its existence until SR6, but print items in later splatbooks that only work if the errata are actually in play.

This is simply untrue. I have 4 different PDFs of SR4, and 3 different DPFs of SR4A, and each never version contains errata from the previous version.

Buy it when it's first released, and you get a link to each new version released.

[Mäx]

This is simply untrue. I have 4 different PDFs of SR4, and 3 different DPFs of SR4A, and each never version contains errata from the previous version.

The corebook is almost unique in this regard, most other SR4 books didn'¨t get any errata at all, even when one existed, it just wasn't released.

And once again this doesn't help those poor inviduals who end up buying the first printing of the physical book,

[DWC]

This is simply untrue. I have 4 different PDFs of SR4, and 3 different DPFs of SR4A, and each never version contains errata from the previous version.

Buy it when it's first released, and you get a link to each new version released.

And I have 3 PDF editions of Arsenal. The third has all the errata items reverted to their original, incorrect first printing state. Most of the books have never seen any sort of errata. Trusting that the process will work based on a single outlier data point hardly seems prudent.

[Lurker37]

So what it boils down to is: "Will I buy a copy of the core rules I cannot actually play with just to get a possibly-already-used-by-someone-browsing-the-book-in-store code for a HammerLI 620 in Shadowrun Online?"


...damn my completionism!

[Aaron]

I know it's not in the same ballpark as, well, not needing the errata in the first place -- but if nothing else, please believe me when I say that we, the writers, aren't taking the need for errata lightly. We want the end product to be awesome, not just playable, and guys like Patrick are how it's gonna get there.

Frag that noise. The number of typos Critias and the rest of us caught before the book went to print far outnumber the ones we missed. True, there's some cleanup to do, but in three and a half decades of gaming I've almost never seen a game book without a single typo in it.

[Stahlseele]

TYPOS . . are not that big of a Problem . .
Dorfs losing Thermo and Trolls paying 50% more for Cyber.
Things like those? That is a Problem.

[Draco18s]

TYPOS . . are not that big of a Problem . .
Dorfs losing Thermo and Trolls paying 50% more for Cyber.
Things like those? That is a Problem.

Quoted for Truth.
Those aren't typos, those are rules changes that when pointed out those of you who were working on the document said, "Wait, I thought we fixed that."
Because the first one was a layout issue (text got linewrapped into a hidden location) and the second was a playtest idea that was scrapped (and should have been removed entirely before you even hit typo-proofing).

[Sendaz]

It's the catch-22 of proofing though sometimes. Did something similar for college English.

If you know the product you are looking over, you know in your mind what it is supposed to say and sometimes when your trawling through tons of words it sees the overall picture but misses a detail inbetween the ends. Sort of an expanded version of when you see a word that is mispleled and your brain automatically fixes it so long as it can see the over word/intent and you might not even notice. ( A good example is the misspelled word in this sentence)

On the flip side, if you have someone new to the product proofing to get around the first type of error they can spot the obvious errors but miss items relevant to the setting, imagine something like the aforementioned thermo vision because the new guy might not know the runts even had it in the first place.

I do wonder though when some of the persons have mentioned here how they did spot items but because they were only proofer and editor has final control the error still went through. If I am paying someone to proof for me and I do not listen to what they turn in, why did I ask them to proof in the first place? But again it is not always so easy. It probably depended on how many final editor types were on hand and projects. It is a company like anywhere else and the workload is always large I would imagine.

[Aaron]

Quoted for Truth.
Those aren't typos, those are rules changes that when pointed out those of you who were working on the document said, "Wait, I thought we fixed that."
Because the first one was a layout issue (text got linewrapped into a hidden location) and the second was a playtest idea that was scrapped (and should have been removed entirely before you even hit typo-proofing).

It's a furniture polish and a dessert topping.

Sometimes a typo changes the meaning of a sentence, sometimes drastically. When you have a rule book, an error can change a rule, but that doesn't make it not an error.

[Sendaz]

It's a furniture polish and a dessert topping.

Note to self: Do NOT ask for the dessert over at Aaron's place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[binarywraith]

Frag that noise. The number of typos Critias and the rest of us caught before the book went to print far outnumber the ones we missed. True, there's some cleanup to do, but in three and a half decades of gaming I've almost never seen a game book without a single typo in it.

If you caught that many, then I shudder to think how bad the pre-printing drafts must have been before that!

Judging from the typos and major rules issues we've pointed out here in the previews alone...

[Patrick Goodman]

I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you

I need to go watch that movie again. It always makes me smile, and I could use that right about now.

[Temperance]

I need to go watch that movie again. It always makes me smile, and I could use that right about now.

I support this! I have long since co-opted a phrase from that movie to inject silliness into random conversations when people lose their train of thought. "... a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl?" Sadly it's come to the point that my friends will cut me off and say, "No, not a hat, brooch, or pterodactyl. It was something else." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) Once in a while, much like a broken clock, it is a hat, brooch, or pterodactyl. On those days, I'm glad I stopped sniffing glue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

More on topic: This might come across as heresy to some, but there are some of us that simply use the rules as written; warts and all. Errata is a benefit, but not required. If something needs to be houseruled because we think it's a stupid rule or it doesn't make sense, we houserule the problem passage/item and move on. My table will discuss things to reach a consensus or have the GM make a ruling if consensus can't be reached. No, things aren't always that simple, but we generally believe in the KISS principle when it comes to these things.

Some of us remember our 5c guard gods fondly (and bought pantheons of them). I tell you, the look on the GM's face is priceless when you whip 'em out in an emergency. (You have what?!?) Especially if the gods in question have been on every version/copy of your character sheet and they've okay'd it every time. Now *that* was a game breaking typo. (Uh, doesn't the book say dogs? I just thought you really liked dogs and mythology. Oh. No, apparently not. It does say gods. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) )

This is not to dismiss the very valid concern that errata is important in some cases. I generally prefer errata, when available/necessary. I just don't think it's the end of the gaming world when it's not.

Now I feel the need to chase children off my non-existent lawn and complain about hills and snow.

-Temperance

[Draco18s]

Now I feel the need to chase children off my non-existent lawn and complain about hills and snow.

I still need a silver-topped cane myself.
(And a lawn...)

[Lurker37]

You kids, get off my LAN!

[Udoshi]

Sadly this does nothing to help the suckers who end up buying the first printing books.

To be fair, this reflex should have been drilled into everyone by 4th.

This is the CORE BOOK for a NEW EDITION. You can afford a few extra months of editing to make sure issues are fixed.

I have to agree with this, but at the same time..... well, a certain way of doing things was set up in the last edition and never really changed. Hoping anything different just because there's a 5 slapped on it instead of banking on faith I ran out of.

In short, Thank god for patrick goodman.

[Draco18s]

I have to agree with this, but at the same time..... well, a certain way of doing things was set up in the last edition and never really changed. Hoping anything different just because there's a 5 slapped on it instead of banking on faith I ran out of.

I'd kind of hoped that CGL had changed after the snafu that was War!.
But they haven't.
And they'll pay the price in the end.

[Bull]

I'd kind of hoped that CGL had changed after the snafu that was War!.
But they haven't.
And they'll pay the price in the end.

The D&D 4 PLayers Handbook has a 27 Page Errata PDF. The DMG is Errata is 7 pages long. For 540 pages of material between two books. Which is just a little more than the SR5 book clocks in at. And WotC has a staff of full time editors and a hell of a lot more money to throw around for this sort of thing.

We did pretty damn good with a much smaller team and much lower budget.

[cndblank]

The D&D 4 PLayers Handbook has a 27 Page Errata PDF. The DMG is Errata is 7 pages long. For 540 pages of material between two books. Which is just a little more than the SR5 book clocks in at. And WotC has a staff of full time editors and a hell of a lot more money to throw around for this sort of thing.

We did pretty damn good with a much smaller team and much lower budget.

Too true.

And thanks

[Pariahpaladin]

Well all in all this thread convinced me to get both the preorder and PDF.

I know that the team has taken a lot of criticism on the forums and to Bull, Critas, Patrick and the rest - thank you for all your hard work.

Im really looking forward to upgrading from SR3 to 5 in the coming months.

[Tycho]

The D&D 4 PLayers Handbook has a 27 Page Errata PDF. The DMG is Errata is 7 pages long. For 540 pages of material between two books. Which is just a little more than the SR5 book clocks in at. And WotC has a staff of full time editors and a hell of a lot more money to throw around for this sort of thing.

We did pretty damn good with a much smaller team and much lower budget.

At least there is an errata published, so...

[Temperance]

At least there is an errata published, so...

Yes, and the D&D4e errata for both books took a couple of years to compile. This looks like it might happen shortly* after the physical release for SR5. Okay, it's not perfect, I grant. But SR5 is heading in a direction that is better than SR4 already. (At least on that front.)

* For various values of short.

-Temperance

[Sendaz]

* For various values of short.
-Temperance

YSMV (Your Shortly May Vary) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tycho]

I will only believe it when I see Errata: All Errata on the SR4 Website is at least 3 years old and came out even before War. Let's just face it, they were probably all released back when Synner was Line Developer. Hell some Books did not get an errata published at all (Augmentation, Runner's Companion). So I say even if the writers compile an errata, the only one who will profit form it, will be the German Players because they will get the errata in the first German Printing. In the US they will include it in the Second Printing and let you buy the book again.

cya
Tycho