 OOC:SR5 Introduction/Milk Run, Out of Character Talk |
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 Jul 11 2013, 03:02 PM
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#26
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 3,473 Joined: 24-May 10 From: Beijing Member No.: 18,611  |
QUOTE (Slacker @ Jul 11 2013, 07:44 PM)  Technically. I don't believe kinkos is supposed to let you print it our since it is a copyrighted book. But really I would not suggest doing that at all. Printing out a PDF creates a very bulky/unwieldy book far more so than a hardcopy released by a real printer. Oh and I should mention for those looking at drivethru already having the PDF up, a lot of people are complaining that its not the right copy. The formatting is wrong and there are no bookmarks in it. Ok, thanks for the info. To cover my butt, I didn't know this was possibly copyright infringement or whatever, sorry to CGL for suggesting it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I've got the charsheet (thanks Aria!) and am working on getting "Swims-With-Sharks" together and posted. |
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Jul 11 2013, 04:16 PM
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#27
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,473 Joined: 24-May 10 From: Beijing Member No.: 18,611 |
nm, sorry
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Jul 11 2013, 07:39 PM
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#28
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,422 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
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Jul 11 2013, 08:08 PM
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#29
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,422 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Does anyone have any idea how "James" gets his Living Persona stats on p. 102? His Attributes are all at 2-4, yet everything there is 5-6 (I understand the ones that are equal to Resonance, but the others are Charisma, Logic, Willpower, and Intuition, which he has at 3, 4, 3, and 4).
Guess, though, I didn't miss anything and it's just the typical wrong example characters that every Shadowrun book seems to include as a must-have. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Bye Thanee |
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Jul 11 2013, 08:19 PM
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#30
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Yeah, looks off to me as well, errata time.
Living Persona — Attack Charisma — 3 + ? Data Processing Logic — 4 + Analytical Mind Device Rating Resonance — Correct Firewall Willpower — 3 + Natural hardening Sleaze Intuition — 4 + ? |
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Jul 11 2013, 08:37 PM
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#31
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Jul 11 2013, 02:19 PM) Yeah, looks off to me as well, errata time. Living Persona — Attack Charisma — 3 + ? Data Processing Logic — 4 + Analytical Mind Device Rating Resonance — Correct Firewall Willpower — 3 + Natural hardening Sleaze Intuition — 4 + ? Yep. Definitely looks like something for the errata. |
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Jul 11 2013, 10:07 PM
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#32
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jul 7 2013, 10:00 PM) R3 Enchanting Group (free from priority) Did you mean these are the 5 points of the 36 you can use on skill groups?------ alchemy, artificing, disenchanting R2 Stealth Group (free from priority) ------ disguise, palming, sneaking |
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Jul 11 2013, 10:17 PM
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#33
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,422 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Aren't those extra? i.e. 36/5 means 36 for seperate skills and 5 for skill groups.
Bye Thanee |
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Jul 11 2013, 10:39 PM
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#34
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
QUOTE (Thanee @ Jul 11 2013, 04:17 PM) Aren't those extra? i.e. 36/5 means 36 for seperate skills and 5 for skill groups. Had to look at the example... The text seems to imply otherwise, but the example says you are correct. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jul 11 2013, 11:34 PM
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#35
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
QUOTE (Redjack @ Jul 11 2013, 04:39 PM) Had to look at the example... The text seems to imply otherwise, but the example says you are correct. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Yeah. The group points are separate from the individual skill points. |
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Jul 12 2013, 08:32 AM
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#36
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,473 Joined: 24-May 10 From: Beijing Member No.: 18,611 |
Gosh darn am I getting frustrated with this new priority system. It seems the new thing in SR5 is tradeoffs-tradeoffs-tradeoffs. This is feeling fiddlier (a word?) than karma gen was for SR4. Or maybe a better word is constraining? It seems that little changes, little nudges to a character here and there aren't as easy anymore, if you want to change one thing, a giant house of cards falls over and your character ends up changing drastically just for that one little change.
</rant> ok sorry about that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jul 12 2013, 09:13 AM
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#37
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,422 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
KarmaGen will be back in the Companion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
You can use up to 50 Karma (minus positive Qualities) for those "little nudges". I did that with my skills... only took D for skills, but used most of my Karma to add to those. Bye Thanee |
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Jul 12 2013, 09:23 AM
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#38
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,473 Joined: 24-May 10 From: Beijing Member No.: 18,611 |
QUOTE (Thanee @ Jul 12 2013, 05:13 PM) You can use up to 50 Karma (minus positive Qualities) for those "little nudges". I did that with my skills... only took D for skills, but used most of my Karma to add to those. Yeah, I know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm still trying to understand just what about it is frustrating me. I think it's that each sub-system is more of a closed environment. Like, points for Attributes and Skills don't interact, except at the level of the bonus karma. So if you want to raise a skill or two, it's not possible to lower an Attribute to pay for it. Or if I need like 20k more nuyen. The only option is the small, small amount of karma (it's not going to be 50 karma, I don't see anyone ever not taking at least one Pos. Q). This karma doesn't go very far. And the only other option to get more points for skills or Attributes or money is to redo Priority choices, but that way lies madness... |
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Jul 12 2013, 09:47 AM
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#39
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,422 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Yep, I see what you mean.
It takes a bit getting used to the restraints, I guess. Bye Thanee |
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Jul 12 2013, 12:56 PM
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#40
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jul 12 2013, 03:32 AM) Gosh darn am I getting frustrated with this new priority system. It seems the new thing in SR5 is tradeoffs-tradeoffs-tradeoffs. This is feeling fiddlier (a word?) than karma gen was for SR4. Or maybe a better word is constraining? It seems that little changes, little nudges to a character here and there aren't as easy anymore, if you want to change one thing, a giant house of cards falls over and your character ends up changing drastically just for that one little change. </rant> ok sorry about that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Well the tag line for this edition is "Everything has a price" So, you're right they emphasize tradeoffs this time. As far as the little nudges go, that is reserved for character advancement after chargen. Karma/buildpoint chargen is amazingly adaptive on the minute detail, but it also is amazingly complex for new players and even veteran players take time to create characters with it with all the different options available. The priority system is designed to get people into the game quicker and easier. And I can't fault them for that. Honestly, they've built a lot more flexibility into this priority system than what was used in the first 3 editions of the game. I'm quite happy with it. |
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Jul 12 2013, 01:26 PM
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#41
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,422 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
QUOTE (Slacker @ Jul 12 2013, 02:56 PM) Well the tag line for this edition is "Everything has a price" So, you're right they emphasize tradeoffs this time. Not that it has anything to do with the new edition here, really. The priority system has always been like that (in fact, as you say, it is more flexible now compared to previous editions). Bye Thanee |
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Jul 12 2013, 02:25 PM
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#42
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,473 Joined: 24-May 10 From: Beijing Member No.: 18,611 |
QUOTE (Slacker @ Jul 12 2013, 08:56 PM) Well the tag line for this edition is "Everything has a price" So, you're right they emphasize tradeoffs this time. As far as the little nudges go, that is reserved for character advancement after chargen. Karma/buildpoint chargen is amazingly adaptive on the minute detail, but it also is amazingly complex for new players and even veteran players take time to create characters with it with all the different options available. The priority system is designed to get people into the game quicker and easier. And I can't fault them for that. Honestly, they've built a lot more flexibility into this priority system than what was used in the first 3 editions of the game. I'm quite happy with it. I hear ya. I'm not faulting CGL for putting in a char-creation system that makes it easier on first-timers to get into the game quickly. But I think I'm at the point where I can say "Priority system...it's not for me" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jul 12 2013, 02:34 PM
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#43
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
One of the priority system design outputs is that starting characters are going to be in a relatively pre defined range as compared to the results you can get with a build system.
You can still min max a build, but the max range isn't as big relative to the average build. |
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Jul 12 2013, 09:52 PM
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#44
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,575 Joined: 5-February 10 Member No.: 18,115 |
Is it really so hard to ship both types of character creation in the corebook? Have the Priority system for first-timers and the Karma/BP system for veterans.
I know, I know, "The book's already almost 500 pages!", yes, so I've heard, just cut out a page or two of the fanfiction.net grade fluff stories to make more room for crunch please. ~Umi |
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Jul 12 2013, 10:14 PM
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#45
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,422 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Only need to put together the background now... rest is done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Bye Thanee |
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Jul 13 2013, 02:13 AM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 12 2013, 03:52 PM) Is it really so hard to ship both types of character creation in the corebook? Have the Priority system for fi. t-timers and the Karma/BP system for veterans. I know, I know, "The book's already almost 500 pages!", yes, so I've heard, just cut out a page or two of the fanfiction.net grade fluff stories to make more room for crunch please. ~Umi The short stories are such a part of the Shadowrun experience though. Besides somebody did a breakdown of the fluff to rules in each chapter and this book is already pretty trim. Not to mention its the Core Rulebook, its not designed to have a whole bunch of variant rules in it. That's what supplemental books are for. |
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Jul 13 2013, 02:30 AM
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#47
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,473 Joined: 24-May 10 From: Beijing Member No.: 18,611 |
Me too - crunch is done, fluff being worked on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jul 14 2013, 09:39 AM
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#48
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,575 Joined: 5-February 10 Member No.: 18,115 |
QUOTE (Slacker @ Jul 12 2013, 07:13 PM) The short stories are such a part of the Shadowrun experience though. Besides somebody did a breakdown of the fluff to rules in each chapter and this book is already pretty trim. Not to mention its the Core Rulebook, its not designed to have a whole bunch of variant rules in it. That's what supplemental books are for. One could just as easily argue that fluff belongs in supplemental books. Do you honestly feel that fluff has a higher priority than rules in the Core Rulebook? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) I want to play the game, not read short stories. Why do I have to pay for two books to get the character generation rules that came standard with the previous edition, along with a bunch of short stories I don't want mixed in? If you want the stories, hey, more power to ya. Anyone who wants the stories should simply be able to buy a stories collection book separately. That way they can get the stories they crave, without any pesky variant rules they may or may not want getting in the way. Everyone wins! ~Umi |
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Jul 14 2013, 02:53 PM
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#49
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,420 Joined: 30-October 03 Member No.: 5,776 |
QUOTE (Umidori @ Jul 1wasn) One could just as easily argue thatifluff belongs in supplemental books. Do you honestly feel that fluff has a higher priority than rules in the Core Ruleboo. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) I want to play the game, not read short stories. Why do I have to pay for two books to get the character generation rules that came standard with the previous edition, along with a bunch of short stories I don't want mixed in? If you want the stories, hey, more power to ya. Anyone who wants the stories should simply be able to buy a stories collection book separately. That way they can get the stories they crave, without any pesky variant rules they may or may not want getting in the way. Everyone wins! ~Umi The stories and artwork are what pulls many people into the gameworld wanting to give the rules a try. Look at it this way, the fluff is what has kept Shadowrun alive and kicking butt despite some of the god awful rules tat were in the early editions. Did you ever try playing a decker in first edition? The build point character system wasnt introduced until third edition and that was in a supplemental book. That system got a lot of fan support and they tried making it the main system in 4th. But I believe it was just too intimidating for new players. That's why they came up with this priority system which is a nice compromise between the build point and old priority system. But that's just my opinion. Are I can certainly understand your desire for the build point or karma build systems. im finding that I really like it. Had a great chargen session with my local gaming group and people were really enjoying character creation together with it. |
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Jul 14 2013, 05:45 PM
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#50
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,575 Joined: 5-February 10 Member No.: 18,115 |
Well I think we can agree that we're probably just on different sides of the fence, and that neither system is better. I guess I just wish I could get everything I want to be able to play in one book, and I guess some folks wish they could get all that and good art and stories too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Anywho, kinda off-topic for this thread! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ~Umi |
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