Street Samurai, Now that we have the book... Options

[Moirdryd]

You can build Street Sams a lot cheaper, that's for sure. But there is always stuff to spend your Nuyen on (SINs, Licences, vehicles, Guns, ammo, Activesofts to go with your skillwires, Lifestyles, tools, lifestyle enhancements and so on).

[Psikerlord]

cyberlimbs are stupid strong, again? why? so for about 30,000 or so and 1 essence u can buy 9 agility out the gate. i wouldnt care if the availability was total rating x3, but the way its written enhancements are a separate availability of 9 for level 3. that is just dumb. a cyberlimb with agility, if not also str or armour enhancement, is a no brainer for every sam. meaningful choices is what the game needs, not this OP stuff.

although, apart from unchanged limbs, rest of book that ive barely skimmed, looks great!

so... no one thinks cyberlimbs are OP? seriously?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

so... no one thinks cyberlimbs are OP? seriously?

Seriously... *shrug*

[Stahlseele]

Because no, they are not.
For the first time in the History of SR, under SR4 Rules, limbs were worth taking under some circumstances . .
And not even all the time either. Just when you were going for specific things.

[Ricochet]

I think the biggest thing that Street Sams will find to be an advantage is the new advancement tables. With no individual karma bonuses, advancing via Nuyen (by buying ware) seems like it will be stronger when compared to depending on Karma to advance. All my calculations of advancement need to be revised now that karma won't stretch as far in SR5 (unless your group plays all feel good missions.)

[Stahlseele]

you did notice that prices for ware multiplied yes?
and that the reward for runs is a pittance done by some pretty obscure calculation?

[Moirdryd]

The reward for Standard Runs and besides, who apart from the GM just starting out ever used any of the calculation tables for runs in any of the books for the last 20 years? It's fine for the new crew just getting their feet into the shadows. For the rest of us we can offer whatever (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) besides 3K+ a piece is upwards of what my Standard runs used to pay (a Standard run was something that was completed within a couple of days). Bigger runs pay more. It even says so.

[Ricochet]

you did notice that prices for ware multiplied yes?
and that the reward for runs is a pittance done by some pretty obscure calculation?

Depends on your gear goals. With Beta and Delta coming down so far in price, if your goal is to get those, it really isn't more expensive. In almost all instances, it's far, far cheaper. Starting gear is more expensive. High end gear is cheaper.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I would think that most (not all) sammies and deckers are going A for resources.

<edit> @Aegis - The disparity is even greater when we consider that improved reflexes 3 for adepts is only 3.5 PP, making it nowhere near balanced versus the cyber/bio options.

I'd be tempted to go with C resources to get attributes and skills up really high and actually make him a versatile character since well, the ware route seems to suck. Besides 5 reation, 5 intuition gets you 10 initiative or 2 actions without any reflex enhancers. A 3rd pass would be nice but is far from required other than that what does he need, some agility boosters maygbe. The rest is just gravy.

[binarywraith]

In the edition I'm most recently familiar with, 3rd edition, you would basically ALWAYS take Resources A for a serious Samurai.

It sounds to me, Bull, like you're suggesting that some of us may be carrying with us baggage and assumptions based on other editions that are no longer accurate. And that it is no longer necessary to go the Resource 'A' route, and instead a Samurai can be built with a lower resource requirement, leaving Resources 'A' for Deckers/Riggers, and instead min/maxing Attributes and/or Skills as a Samurai.

In fact, as it stands, I'd say taking resources A on a Sammy right now is entirely contra-indicated. The extra 200k (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) really isn't anywhere near as useful as the massive bump to skills or attributes you could otherwise get. There just isn't enough good gear to spend money on yet.

That said, yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in how powerful Adepts are out of the box this edition.

[Tzeentch]

That said, yeah, I'm pretty disappointed in how powerful Adepts are out of the box this edition.

Straight adepts are for chumps, man. All bow to the mystic adept reign of terror (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

[binarywraith]

so... no one thinks cyberlimbs are OP? seriously?

Cyberlimbs have their own Strength and Agility ratings.
When a particular limb is used for a test (such as
leading an attack with your cyberarm), use the attribute
for that limb (natural or cyber); in any other case, take the
average value of all limbs involved in the task. If a task
requires the careful coordination of several limbs, use the
value of the weakest limb. The attributes of partial limbs
(including cyberhands and –feet) may be enhanced, but
their attributes only apply for tests directly involving
those limbs (such as a Strength Test when gripping something
with an enhanced cyberhand).

AND

Cyberlimb enhancements use up to the Capacity of the
cyberlimb they enhance. There are three types of enhancement:
Agility, Armor, and Strength. Physical attribute
enhancements add their Rating to the appropriate
attribute of the limb.

Bolding mine.

So no, cyberlimbs aren't OP. If your GM is actually paying attention to the (cumbersome and not intuitive here) rules, then the enhanced attributes from them aren't going to apply in many, many situations.

[Bull]

Straight adepts are for chumps, man. All bow to the mystic adept reign of terror (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

They're getting a nerf crotchbat taken to them in the Errata. I don't know what the final version will look like, but at the very least until the official Errata is out for Shadowrun Missions the cost is 5 Karma per point instead of 2. Not a perfect fix, but a good start.

[binarywraith]

They're getting a nerf crotchbat taken to them in the Errata. I don't know what the final version will look like, but at the very least until the official Errata is out for Shadowrun Missions the cost is 5 Karma per point instead of 2. Not a perfect fix, but a good start.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

[kerbarian]

When a particular limb is used for a test (such as leading an attack with your cyberarm), use the attribute for that limb (natural or cyber); in any other case, take the average value of all limbs involved in the task.

So no, cyberlimbs aren't OP. If your GM is actually paying attention to the (cumbersome and not intuitive here) rules, then the enhanced attributes from them aren't going to apply in many, many situations.

That's actually an interesting advantage for one-handed weapons. If you buy one super-arm and want to use its AGI for your attacks, you'll need to stick to an SMG or pistol, a one-handed melee weapon, etc. Of course, there's nothing in the rules (that I can find) about whether particular weapons can be wielded one-handed or not, so it will require some GM interpretation.

[Shinobi Killfist]

They're getting a nerf crotchbat taken to them in the Errata. I don't know what the final version will look like, but at the very least until the official Errata is out for Shadowrun Missions the cost is 5 Karma per point instead of 2. Not a perfect fix, but a good start.

That helps for the out of the gate mystic adept, though he is still better than the pure mage but the advancement needs to be looked into the 2 for 1 aspect of his magic increases are absurd.

[Bull]

That helps for the out of the gate mystic adept, though he is still better than the pure mage but the advancement needs to be looked into the 2 for 1 aspect of his magic increases are absurd.

As I said, other stuff is being looked at. This is just a short term patch for Missions until the official errata is out, to handle Chargen, since that's where they're broken the worst. The rest is a longer term problem that will take a little while to really manifest, so it's less of a concern for me.

[Psikerlord]

So no, cyberlimbs aren't OP. If your GM is actually paying attention to the (cumbersome and not intuitive here) rules, then the enhanced attributes from them aren't going to apply in many, many situations.

That's actually an interesting advantage for one-handed weapons. If you buy one super-arm and want to use its AGI for your attacks, you'll need to stick to an SMG or pistol, a one-handed melee weapon, etc. Of course, there's nothing in the rules (that I can find) about whether particular weapons can be wielded one-handed or not, so it will require some GM interpretation.

ah interesting i never thought of that. that isnt so bad i guess, if you want 9 agility for the bigger weapons, youll need 2 cyberarms, which at 2 essence is more balanced (although prolly still OP, but then i havent considered limits yet, which ought to create diminishing returns at least). cheers.

[Stahlseele]

All Weapons can be wielded one handed.
If you are a Troll at least.
Under SR3, you got a negative mod to the TN if you tried to use a two handed weapon one handed.
Under SR4 i think this was changed to Trolls get a negative Dice Pool Mod if they do it, but they can.

[Psikerlord]

All Weapons can be wielded one handed.
If you are a Troll at least.
Under SR3, you got a negative mod to the TN if you tried to use a two handed weapon one handed.
Under SR4 i think this was changed to Trolls get a negative Dice Pool Mod if they do it, but they can.

i dont think thats an official rule in 5e, but ive not checked, and i guess being troll comes with some inherent penalties. in any case to each his own

[Wakshaani]

Re: Street Samurai - There are actually several builds for this, now. The old standard "MOAR MONIES!" way is probably a sucker bet. I'd go lower, with B likely but C is very much valid. You can even toss a Resources D for a Razorboi type, which is dang cool. (Attributes A, Skills B, Race C, Resources D ... hello, Molly!)

I'm hoping that they'll let me crank a few more sample archetypes down the line to show different types of cyber-peeps. Resources A is more of a Former Company Man, someone who has the heavy bioware investment to 'look pretty' and snubs the primative chrome heads, Resources D for gangers with an edge, and B and C shouldering one another for position about which is the 'real' Samurai. Heck, I could drop a "10 Samurai" E-book and each one would have a different build, giving the whole field diversity.

...

Which is actually kind of an idea. I should tug on Jason's sleeve after my current writing's done. Hrm!

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

They're getting a nerf crotchbat taken to them in the Errata. I don't know what the final version will look like, but at the very least until the official Errata is out for Shadowrun Missions the cost is 5 Karma per point instead of 2. Not a perfect fix, but a good start.

And Chargen as an Aspected Magician of one priority Rank Lower?

That seems like it would do the trick, and make tradeoffs which are meaningful in some way.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[Nath]

If your GM i If you buy one super-arm and want to use its AGI for your attacks, you'll need to stick to an SMG or pistol, a one-handed melee weapon, etc.

Or something as light as a sniper rifle with a bipod?

[cndblank]

And Chargen as an Aspected Magician of one priority Rank Lower?

That seems like it would do the trick, and make tradeoffs which are meaningful in some way.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Agreed