So, now that we've got the book, I'm curious. Just what in the world are starting Street Samurai supposed to spend their money on? With the availability cap at 12 per the rules, you cannot buy :

Wired Reflexes above Rating 2
Titanium Bone Lacing
Reaction Enhancers above 2
Cyberskulls
Skillwires above 3
Dermal plating above 3
Syperthyroid


I understand the goal was to leave room for growth, but seriously, I'm having a bit of trouble actually spending 450k nuyen here! What are you folks spending that sweet cash on? Heck, I can't even by my poor troll an assault cannon, they're all availability 20.

You forgot to add
muscle replacement above 2
muscle toners above 2
muscle augmentation above 2

but cyberlimbs can get up to +4 STR and AGI right of the gate.

They can, but you can't use them if they would go over your racial maximums.

I agree that Restricted Gear should have been included.
But I wouldn't expect a GM with having trouble with a player taking restricted gear for 4 karma.

Part of the problem also is that for a book with almost 500 pages, there really just plain isn't that much cyber and bio in here beyond the usual must-haves.

gotta sell those splat books somehow.

You cannot "customize" above racial max.

However, you can "customize" and then add Enhancements.

My STreet Sam, Shadow Ron, took the following 'ware:

Cybereyes 2 Alpha,
Bone Lacing, ALuminum
Dermal Plate 2 Beta
Reaction Enhancers 2 Alpha
Wired 2
Muscle Toner 2

Throw in some weapons, some lifestyle, a stack of APDS rounds, a SIN, and a Bike, and I actually had to spend some freebie karma on extra money.

Ummm... From what I have heard, Betaware is NOT available at character creation.

It isn't. Device rating 6, Availability 12, and Standard or Alphaware only are the stated limits.

Math fail. edited because I failed at the math.

Gah, you're right. Should be Alphaware. Wrote it on my sheet wrong (I was looking at beta at one point).

Essence cost is right for Alpha anyway.

Got it...

Eh, not math fail. WIerd version of dyslexia fail. I'm really good at thinking one thing and writing down something completely different on occasion. I do it with friends names all the time. I'll be looking at one friend and call him by the name of another friend who's with us.

Um...wasn't this the case in SR4 as well? I don't recall seeing many high-rating skillwires on starting characters, and the availability on R3 Wired Reflexes and Dermal Plating have always been high.

edited the post because I did the math wrong.

But since I have you attention Bull, did the archetypes spend their karma and where are the street sams' contacts.

In SR4 there was no avail raise on customizing cyberware so Wired 2 alpha had the same avail as Wired 2..

Bull didn't write all the archetypes, and I think the Street Samurai's contacts is already something that's been mentioned in the errata thread.

As of right now, Murphy's sitting on :

Aluminum Bone Lacing
Reaction Enhancer 2 Alpha
Wireless Reflexes 1 Alpha (The Alphaware bump to availability makes 2 out of bounds)
Muscle Aug 2
Muscle Toner 2
Orthoskin 3
Flare Compensation
Smartlink

That's 245k, and 4.93 essence worth of stuff. I could probably blow more cash if I started putting on cyberlimbs, but since his physical stats are already high as an Ork, they'd be somewhat of a waste.

I mentioned it awhile ago in that thread, but since I've got a guy on the line discussing things, figured I'd ask again.

Suppose you could alphaware the non-alpha'd cyber, presuming it doesn't push over the availability line (no book to check, just spitballing here).

Only things that would affect are the eyemods and Bone Lacing. The Smartlink and comp are trivial, and don't really get any effect from it; the bone lacing is already availability 12 stock, so it can't be done.

I'm actually tempted to drop his resources further, cut about half of my costs here, and pump it all into skills. Might be more bang for the buck, and I can clearly manage a decent cyberware suite on less money.

Not a bad idea, really. Then you've got Essence to spare down the line when the nice cyber/bio you want becomes available and your dice pools are either higher or leave fewer "oh, shit!" holes.

I think they did, but I didn't build them. But I don't know why they wouldn't have?

And Contacts probably left off by accident. Be sure to note that in the SR Tabletop Forum Errata Thread: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?board=12.0

Thanks

Bull

And just a note, it was memory fail. Shadow Ron has Attributes A, not Money, so he spent a bit over 250,000¥ on the cyber listed above.

Bull

Welp, there goes my first character concept. I was disappointed to see that cyberlimbs haven't changed at all since SR4. Well, except they don't have a Body rating now, so even if you blow all your nuyen and essence on complete torso and limb replacement job, jogging still tires you out the same as it did before your upgrade.

I guess I could just get stock limbs and be the guy with average strength, average agility, and like 9000 Armor. But I wanna be Steve Austin, dammit! Why can't we have cyberlimbs that don't suck in Shadowrun?

Cyberlimbs DON'T suck in Shadowrun (at least not in SR4). Not sure why you think they do. *shrug*

I got me a Full Body Replacement that is down right awesome. And he started out that way, though he did eventually manage to take it all to Alpha Grade, by the time I stopped playing him (at about 125 Karma)... Stopped playing him because there were too many other ideas demanding to be played. Got me like 60 characters on my hard drive for SR4. Besides, he really was not as fun as I anticipated, at the advanced Karma levels he ended up at. *shrug*

Hrm. Adepts look pretty dang good right out the gate, compared to Samurai, in this edition.

That's a little disappointing.

Did Team: Awakened have all the min/maxers playtesting them, while Team: Samurai had the guys who just wanted to read the Shadowrun Novels, or something?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Problem is, what exactly are we supposed to play until the book with Restricted Gear comes out?

I have always been of the opinion that Adepts were "Good" right out of the gate. Not great or stupendous, but definitely Good.

Hi all, long time sense I have posted.

Got 5E PDF and really like the feel of it from a GM stand point. But as a player was feeling kind of blah do to my favorite archetype the Street Sam looking like it took it on the chin.

Got to say after making a PC I am super happy with the results. In 4th ATT was the main focus on making a strong Sam for me. Now it is skill's. Yes cyber/bio are a great way to fully realize the Sam but with those nifty 12 skill cap and starting with as many 5-6 ranked skills as you like it is amazing what you get.

Quick look at dice pool's:
Automatics (Machine Pistol) 17 dice before smart link
Mono whip 15 dice without adding reach 2
Stealth 13 dice
Perception 11 dice without any mods
Athletic skill group 7 dice
Also comes with social group, electronic group, bio tech group and a couple more skills.

Ware:
Synaptic boosters level 2 (190K)
Bone density Aug level 3 (15K [ massive cost change to this and ortho makes most cost increases across the board hardly felt)
Muscle replacement level 2 (50k)
Fingertip compartment (3K)
Cyber eyes level 2 (14K)

Had to spend Karma for extra cash, has 1.7ESS left

Also PC came with 24 ATT points and a 5 edge allows for a fun PC to build from. Really like him.

Geeez, man. Qi Foci? Bonded at Force x 2 in Karma. So a Force 4 Foci holds 1 single power point, and is bonded for 8 karma?

Holy crap. And that's on top of Improved Reflexes getting dropped down to 3.5 for Rating 3. (In SR 3, I'm like almost positive it cost 5 PP).

So... it sounds like it's no longer a matter of Adept 'Catching up'. Yikes. That's very unfortunate.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Qi Foci? Sorta neet, I guess... Course, Not my bag of tea, really. *shrug*
In SR4A, Reflexes were 1.5 (Level 1), 2.5 (Level 2), 4 (Level 3); which were all subject to Geasa and Way cost reductions (with the appropriate Way).
Yep, sure sounds that way. I agree that it is unfortunate.

Well, it's the whole "use the minimum value" rule. If you're going to dump your stats, you have to get all 5 limbs or this rule will burn you. You can't customize a cybertorso since it is availability 12. Best you can do is buy enhancements, so you can get to Str/Agi 6 at chargen. Not bad if you're a human, but pretty lousy if you're a troll; you can do much better with meat limbs. If you wanna be a samurai, seems like it's better to keep your meat and get muscle aug/toner instead of going chrome.

Gotcha...

I didn't do the Street Sam, but the others Archetypes I did most certainly spent their karma.

You may notice that quite a few have several skills at 1 ... those were all Karma purchased, for instance, instead of skill point purchased.

I did the Street Samurai, but when I did he had two contacts: a fixer and a cab driver. I don't remember their stats, though.

I just built a character that has 2 obvious cyberarms, 2 obvious cyberlegs, an obvious cybertorso, and an obvious cyberskull, all alphaware, with S+3 and A+3 in each of the limbs, and 2 armor in the Skull and Torso.

Built as an Ork, he's got 9 Body, 6 Agility and Strength from the limbs, R6 hydraulic jacks, cyber-implant heavy pistols in each arm, 16 armor (with an armor jacket and helmet) and 19 boxes on the Physical track.

Sure he's only got 0.84 Essence, which is enough to cram in a Rating 2 (alphaware) Synaptic Booster if he ever gets the cash..

I'm actually okay with that small bit. I would love for people who hacked off their limbs to have a nice advantage coming off the bench.

Cyberskull base availability is 16. Cybertorso is 12. Neither, in Alphaware, is available at creation. The skull isn't even available in 'Prime Runner' creation.

Missed the Availability on the skull. Downgrade the torso to standard ware, remove the skull, move the armor to other limbs (and add more with the money saved). Still in Essence limits. Probably pushes it up to 19 armor or so with 18 damage boxes, instead.

so wired reflexes 2 aren't available as alpha at chargen? seems kinda odd, as this wasn't the case in former edtions, AFAIR. at least in alpha should the be available at chargen, as those WR are IMHO one of the core elements of the Sammy-builds. or you are pushed once again in the bioware-direction with synaptic boosters 2 (which should cost less essence even compared to WR 2 alpha, don't they?).

cyberlimbs are stupid strong, again? why? so for about 30,000 or so and 1 essence u can buy 9 agility out the gate. i wouldnt care if the availability was total rating x3, but the way its written enhancements are a separate availability of 9 for level 3. that is just dumb. a cyberlimb with agility, if not also str or armour enhancement, is a no brainer for every sam. meaningful choices is what the game needs, not this OP stuff.

although, apart from unchanged limbs, rest of book that ive barely skimmed, looks great!

Is there a point in getting Wired Reflexes anymore?

Alphaware WR at Rating 2 is 2.4 Essence and 178,800 nuyen. Standard grade Synaptic Booster at Rating 2 is 1 Essence and 190,000 nuyen. So for a mere 11,200 nuyen more I can save 1.4 Essence (just under a quarter of my total), make the implant undetectable to cyberware scanners, and have more upgrade options down the line?

~Umi

And your SB cannot be destroyed by hackers ...

SYL

I hope you fixed that in the errata discussion, since I just made one up for that entry when I was compiling things.

Well first, you can't take Alpha WR at creation. (Unless using the prime runner option.) Which means, at creation, the important difference is standard WR 2 for 3 Essence and 149k vs standard SB 2 at 1 Essence and 190k. So for standard creation, your scenario isn't an option. Which makes it back to the what do you have more of? Essence or cash? For Prime Runner creation, I agree SB 2 is better.

In play, it depends on what your GM is willing to throw your way. You might get a 180k payday, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to keep it for long. And you might need the boost *now*, not whenever you can earn 10k more.

But then, isn't this essentially a rehash of the SR4 discussion on this? Long term bioware is better for your essence, but more expensive.

-Temperance

Only if you're going to stack them with Reaction Enhancers.

That's the sole benefit to WR just now.

In my example, 11,200 nuyen is NOT more expensive in any meaningful way. Neither is the 41,000 nuyen of your example.

Do you have any idea how much more value you get from the synaptic booster? Undetectable by scanners, so that's like some special Ceramic/Plasteel Components mod for cyberware, except even more so because Ceramic/Plasteel Components only affects MAD systems. Immune to hacking, so that's literally better than the best commlink and hacker in the world. A difference of 2 points of Essence between the two items at Standard Grade, which is one third of your total.

I can't even begin to put a proper price on that. Paying out 41,000 for all that is chump change. If you're already going with a Resources Priority high enough to get either implant, there's no reason to take the Wired Reflexes (except for combining it with Reaction Enhancers, as pointed out). You talk about choosing between which resource you want to spend, Nuyen or Essence, and about how sometimes you just can't get more nuyen in time. That's a load of drek, because you can never get more Essence, even in character creation. It is intrinsically far more valuable.

No one's arguing the concept of Bioware costing more money but saving on the soul. What I'm arguing is that this concept is not being followed. The bioware option simply isn't significantly more expensive, despite being monstrously less soul-hungry and having immensely powerful secondary benefits.

~Umi

Hmm, say about the Den what you like, but they can do Maths.
What about skillwires?
Massive Price Increase for something every wageslave is more or less expected to have?
And you need a skilljack too?
And with the new skill limit of 12 . . in earlier versions of SR, Essence-Cost went up with level.
So how much essence does a rating 12 skillwire cost? Anybody have the numbers on hand?
In terms of Nuyen, i think they ratingx20k, so 20x12=240k for Skillwires Rating 12.
And Skilljack costs 20k per rating too? so you need a rating 12 skilljack to boot? for another 240k?
so 480k for that? or does the skillwire not go up to rating 12 at all?