Street Samurai, Now that we have the book... Options

[Makki]

51,000 per runner is a nice chunk of change, but look at what you need to accomplish to get that:

-Face an opponent with at least 30 dicepool
-Take on 3 to 1 odds
-Take on 2 to 1 odds against prof rating 4 group
-Take on 6 critters
-Take on 3 spirits
-Risk public exposure
-Take on the Red Samurai or similar group
-Do it all with extreme speed/subtlety


That's a pretty tall order for an amount of money that most likely won't even get your street sam a cyber upgrade.

looks like a standard run to me. Just not a run going as planned

[X-Kalibur]

Had a Typo. Meant in third edition Improved Reflexes cost 5 points.

But yeeesh. I missed 4th edition, so maybe I'm just getting Edition-shock, here.

Did Samurai primarily take this hit in 5th edition? Or is this a continuing iteration of getting beat down from 4th edition?

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

You're not entirely crazy, SR4 originally was 2, 3, 5 for PP costs of improved reflexes. SR4a lowered the cost.

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

You're not entirely crazy, SR4 originally was 2, 3, 5 for PP costs of improved reflexes. SR4a lowered the cost.

Phew. Just mostly crazy. But geeez, man. Does someone upstairs hate Samurai, or something? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yikes. All this is on top of the old Halve-the-least of Cyber/Bio formula from SR 4, right? Which is a downgrade from the old Overstress doesn't occur until Body Index exceeds Essence by 3.

As much as I don't support flippant house rules, I'm probably going to need to find some way to throw Samurai a bone. As far as I'm concerned, Samurai are the single most important archetype to the genre. (With honorable mention to Deckers.)

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[Sendaz]

As far as I'm concerned, Samurai are the single most important archetype to the genre.
-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Indeed, they are the swiss army knife we all know and love. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

Indeed, they are the swiss army knife we all know and love. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Well done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[X-Kalibur]

Phew. Just mostly crazy. But geeez, man. Does someone upstairs hate Samurai, or something? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Yikes. All this is on top of the old Halve-the-least of Cyber/Bio formula from SR 4, right? Which is a downgrade from the old Overstress doesn't occur until Body Index exceeds Essence by 3.

As much as I don't support flippant house rules, I'm probably going to need to find some way to throw Samurai a bone. As far as I'm concerned, Samurai are the single most important archetype to the genre. (With honorable mention to Deckers.)

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Probably the quickest and least messy would be to change the price and availabilty of wires. Making it so that alpha WR2 is available out the gate brings it more in line with older editions and still eats up the sam's soul.

[Seerow]

looks like a standard run to me. Just not a run going as planned

If that's your typical run, and you consider that payout totally appropriate for it, remind me to NEVER play in any game you run.

Note: Same goes for Bull or whatever SR5 designer actually codified those rules.

[Sendaz]

looks like a standard run to me. Just not a run going as planned

I think I like to hear about that run...

*grabs popcorn*

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

Probably the quickest and least messy would be to change the price and availabilty of wires. Making it so that alpha WR2 is available out the gate brings it more in line with older editions and still eats up the sam's soul.

Coming from third edition, my kneejerk reaction would also be to anchor the Essence cost of Wires to the Power Point cost of Improved Reflexes.

That change alone would be very, very significant, immediately elevate the appeal of Wires vs. Synaptic Accelerators, and free up significant essence for further cybernetic modifications.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[Sengir]

Hm, just found a piece of ware which really got better: "If the pain editor is active, this allows you to ignore all injury modifiers". Not just stun anymore.

[Stahlseele]

@Wired_SR_AEGIS
No. That is impossible.
Magic has to be the Master-Race after all.

@Sengir:
That was always the case, as far as i remember.
You still suffered the wounds, you simply did not get any modifiers.

[Bull]

Just as a note, if you take Money B for your Sammy instead of A, then 41,000 makes a HUGE difference. That's where WIred vs Synaptic really comes into play.

[Sengir]

@Sengir:
That was always the case, as far as i remember.
You still suffered the wounds, you simply did not get any modifiers.

Nope, in 3+4 it only affected stun.

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

Just as a note, if you take Money B for your Sammy instead of A, then 41,000 makes a HUGE difference. That's where WIred vs Synaptic really comes into play.

Interesting Observation, Bull.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[apple]

So, only during character creation and then never? Well, then it´s in the same area as cybermuscles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

SYL

[X-Kalibur]

Just as a note, if you take Money B for your Sammy instead of A, then 41,000 makes a HUGE difference. That's where WIred vs Synaptic really comes into play.

I would think that most (not all) sammies and deckers are going A for resources.

<edit> @Aegis - The disparity is even greater when we consider that improved reflexes 3 for adepts is only 3.5 PP, making it nowhere near balanced versus the cyber/bio options.

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

I would think that most (not all) sammies and deckers are going A for resources.

<edit> @Aegis - The disparity is even greater when we consider that improved reflexes 3 for adepts is only 3.5 PP, making it nowhere near balanced versus the cyber/bio options.

3.5 PP, and available out of Chargen to boot. With Qi Focus added on top of whatever else the remaining PP are being spent on. Yeah, I hear you man.

I proposed a Wired cost change in a separate thread. My kneejerk is that the proposal is sound and lightweight, but I'm interested to see what the unintended consequences of such a move would be.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[Umidori]

That is the problem. You do not hire bargain basement operatives for the Big Scores. You need to pay for the expertise. If you don't, then you should not be surprised when they are eliminated before they even make it onto the premises of the target.

"Why can't QB get rid of this guy himself?"
"Stupid, he can't have any illegal activities connected to us."
"So where we gonna find a hitman?"
"Classifieds. Duh."
"What's our price range?"
"QB gave us ten grand. I guess he wants a quality job."
"You're kidding. How hard can it be to off a guy in jail? Let's find someone cheap and keep the extra dough."
"Now you're speaking my language."
"Here's one! "Kobayashi - Discount Ninja.""
"Twenty bucks. Sweet!"

~Kid Radd

[Bull]

I would think that most (not all) sammies and deckers are going A for resources.

<edit> @Aegis - The disparity is even greater when we consider that improved reflexes 3 for adepts is only 3.5 PP, making it nowhere near balanced versus the cyber/bio options.

I actually went B with my current Missions Street Sam character, Shadow Ron. Had to buy an extra 20K with his karma to buy a bike and a couple other things, but pullede it off. He's pretty badass, is down to .16 essence. I went Attributes A, Skills C. He's hell on wheels.

[Wired_SR_AEGIS]

I actually went B with my current Missions Street Sam character, Shadow Ron. Had to buy an extra 20K with his karma to buy a bike and a couple other things, but pullede it off. He's pretty badass, is down to .16 essence. I went Attributes A, Skills C. He's hell on wheels.

Hrm. Interesting. You know, Attributes 'A' in SR 5 is a pretty big deal as Attributes are such an important part of the equation. They're half of every skill roll, and applicable to basically everything. And by taking 'A', you have a lot of room to min/max your final attribute allocation.

In the edition I'm most recently familiar with, 3rd edition, you would basically ALWAYS take Resources A for a serious Samurai.

It sounds to me, Bull, like you're suggesting that some of us may be carrying with us baggage and assumptions based on other editions that are no longer accurate. And that it is no longer necessary to go the Resource 'A' route, and instead a Samurai can be built with a lower resource requirement, leaving Resources 'A' for Deckers/Riggers, and instead min/maxing Attributes and/or Skills as a Samurai.

(Edit: 40 Skill points and 10 skill groups is no joke, either.)

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

[Umidori]

Just as a note, if you take Money B for your Sammy instead of A, then 41,000 makes a HUGE difference. That's where Wired vs Synaptic really comes into play.

Resources B was, in fact, the Resource level I had in mind when I originally posted. I literally just built a melee street samurai with B Resources, and I kept finding I had extra nuyen to spend.

Granted, I didn't cram myself full of every type of combat 'ware possible, but I did get a bunch of the utility 'ware, a vehicle, a decent lifestyle, a top grade commlink, tons of miscellaneous pieces of gear, a pair of drones, customized armor, vision and hearing enhancements, a DocWagon contract, first aid gear and trauma patches for my entire team, a Rating 6 Tutorsoft, and a R4 Fake SIN.

But what I also got is 2 extra points of Essence, immunity to being hacked, and immunity to cyberware scanners. At a difference of 41,000 nuyen and the ability to also add in Reaction Enhancers, that is an incredible bargain. I can't think of anything that I could currently spend a mere 41k on that I'd rather have than those benefits.

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

"Why can't QB get rid of this guy himself?"
"Stupid, he can't have any illegal activities connected to us."
"So where we gonna find a hitman?"
"Classifieds. Duh."
"What's our price range?"
"QB gave us ten grand. I guess he wants a quality job."
"You're kidding. How hard can it be to off a guy in jail? Let's find someone cheap and keep the extra dough."
"Now you're speaking my language."
"Here's one! "Kobayashi - Discount Ninja.""
"Twenty bucks. Sweet!"

~Kid Radd

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) Awesome.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Resources B was, in fact, the Resource level I had in mind when I originally posted. I literally just built a melee street samurai with B Resources, and I kept finding I had extra nuyen to spend.

Granted, I didn't cram myself full of every type of combat 'ware possible, but I did get a bunch of the utility 'ware, a vehicle, a decent lifestyle, a top grade commlink, tons of miscellaneous pieces of gear, a pair of drones, customized armor, vision and hearing enhancements, a DocWagon contract, first aid gear and trauma patches for my entire team, a Rating 6 Tutorsoft, and a R4 Fake SIN.

But what I also got is 2 extra points of Essence, immunity to being hacked, and immunity to cyberware scanners. At a difference of 41,000 nuyen and the ability to also add in Reaction Enhancers, that is an incredible bargain. I can't think of anything that I could currently spend a mere 41k on that I'd rather have than those benefits.

~Umi

You managed Immunity to being hacked? Pray tell, since that was supposed to not be possible, due to the new design implementation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Course you likely used Bioware. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kerbarian]

If you're looking for more places to spend on augmentations... It doesn't make much in-game sense, but as far as I can tell it's a great deal to replace your hands and feet with cyber versions just for the armor. 4 alpha cyber hands/feet with 2 points of armor each is 0.8 essence and 48k for +8 armor.

As just hands and feet, their attribute scores shouldn't matter. I do wonder a little bit about where to draw the line for that -- it would be nice if it were explicit. As far as I can tell, if you have natural AGI and STR of 6 and get four partial cyberlimbs with the base AGI and STR of 3, you can still use your natural 6's for all attacks and physical skills, except in rare cases like testing your grip strength or performing card tricks.

[Umidori]

You managed Immunity to being hacked? Pray tell, since that was supposed to not be possible, due to the new design implementation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Course you likely used Bioware. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Exactly. If someone really wants, they can hack my Internal Air Tank, but I'll probably keep the Wireless on that turned off on that except to check the gauge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (Which is a seriously stupid thing to have depend on Wireless, but whatever, I've sworn to at least try out most of the Wireless Bonus items before making any final judgement.)

It helps, of course, that I'm running as a melee sammie, so I don't need a smartlink and the like. By the way, did I miss the Personalized Grip somewhere, or is it simply not in the corebook?

~Umi