Dumb 5th Edition questions, I know I have some, do you? Options

[JonathanC]

So I'm looking at the Priority Table on page 65, and I can't find any explanation for the numbers in parentheses next to the metatypes. For example, Priority A has Human(9), while B has Human(7), etc. What are these numbers for?


EDIT: Nevermind, after a few re-reads it seems like these are "bonus" points for special attributes like Edge/Magic/Resonance.

That said, is it weird to anyone else that Elves are now cheaper than orks at chargen?

[Chance359]

special attributes (edge, magic, resonace)

[Chance359]

My question is did the archetypes spend their karma? And where are the street sam's contacts?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Here is a stumper...

Archetypes in the Quickstart have Knowledge Skills equal to (Int + Logic)x3, and I could swear that I saw a developer or freelancer mention that that limit for Free Knowledge Skills was (Int + Logic)x2. Which is correct? Is it x3 or x2?

[Tzeentch]

Here is a stumper...

Archetypes in the Quickstart have Knowledge Skills equal to (Int + Logic)x3, and I could swear that I saw a developer or freelancer mention that that limit for Free Knowledge Skills was (Int + Logic)x2. Which is correct? Is it x3 or x2?

x2. See Knowledge and Language Skills, SR5, p. 89.

[DireRadiant]

Quickstart Rules were made with baseline assumptions on stats and attribute and default Force levels. They won't be easy to figure out unless you know those assumptions.

[fenrishero]

My dumb question is "Did we get a lore explanation for the sudden reduction in cost of manufacturing alpha, beta and deltagrade ware?" only because we did get one for the new matrix rules, and it sounds to me there's a possible run in there for a transition from 4th to 5th game.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

x2. See Knowledge and Language Skills, SR5, p. 89.

Does anyone know WHY that was reduced? There is a distinct lack of Knowledge skills to start with, as many players do not ever purchase Knowledge skills post Character Generation (I am not one of those). So, What was the rationale for limiting even more choice in the system, as far as Knowledge Skills goes?

[Bull]

Does anyone know WHY that was reduced? There is a distinct lack of Knowledge skills to start with, as many players do not ever purchase Knowledge skills post Character Generation (I am not one of those). So, What was the rationale for limiting even more choice in the system, as far as Knowledge Skills goes?

Not sure. I didn;t even notice they WERE reduced, to be honest. But it had been a while since I made an SR4 character, and since I've been using Hero Lab since it was in beta, I haven't actually looked at the formulas in that long.

Here is a stumper...

Archetypes in the Quickstart have Knowledge Skills equal to (Int + Logic)x3, and I could swear that I saw a developer or freelancer mention that that limit for Free Knowledge Skills was (Int + Logic)x2. Which is correct? Is it x3 or x2?

My fault. Again, didn't realize there was a difference between the two, and when I went edited these I never even thought to check the numbers for knowledge skills. Sorry.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Not sure. I didn;t even notice they WERE reduced, to be honest. But it had been a while since I made an SR4 character, and since I've been using Hero Lab since it was in beta, I haven't actually looked at the formulas in that long.



My fault. Again, didn't realize there was a difference between the two, and when I went edited these I never even thought to check the numbers for knowledge skills. Sorry.

No Harm, No foul, Bull. Thanks for the info. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
It would be nice to know WHY they were reduced, though. Anyone else have any info on this change?
Easy enough to set back to x3 if it is desired, at least. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Critias]

Does anyone know WHY that was reduced? There is a distinct lack of Knowledge skills to start with, as many players do not ever purchase Knowledge skills post Character Generation (I am not one of those). So, What was the rationale for limiting even more choice in the system, as far as Knowledge Skills goes?

It was kind of a last minute change (and one I was not thrilled with). I don't remember the entire argument made for it, and I don't want to misrepresent that argument (since I was on the other side), but I think it went something like "We want knowledge skills to be real investments, and the decision to matter more, so we thought giving less free points would make it a more meaningful decision" or something like that.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It was kind of a last minute change (and one I was not thrilled with). I don't remember the entire argument made for it, and I don't want to misrepresent that argument (since I was on the other side), but I think it went something like "We want knowledge skills to be real investments, and the decision to matter more, so we thought giving less free points would make it a more meaningful decision" or something like that.

Nice to know, Critias... Thanks.
I am from the side you are probably on... I love the flexibility that Knowledge skills offer. They really help flesh out the concept of the character. I absolutely hate that they have been reduced in the new edition.

[Redjack]

It was kind of a last minute change (and one I was not thrilled with). I don't remember the entire argument made for it, and I don't want to misrepresent that argument (since I was on the other side), but I think it went something like "We want knowledge skills to be real investments, and the decision to matter more, so we thought giving less free points would make it a more meaningful decision" or something like that.

As a guy who already gave a lot of thought into knowledge skills and likes to tie them tightly to character history, I vote this get an errata back to x3.

[Critias]

Nice to know, Critias... Thanks.
I am from the side you are probably on... I love the flexibility that Knowledge skills offer. They really help flesh out the concept of the character. I absolutely hate that they have been reduced in the new edition.

The good news is, any game table that wants to can easily houserule 'em back to x3. The bad news is, that doesn't help me any when making sample characters for [redacted]. It was painful, having to have dudes almost done and then carve away knowledge skills, trust me. Painful! Nothin' sucks more than taking things off a character sheet, y'know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

As a guy who already gave a lot of thought into knowledge skills and likes to tie them tightly to character history, I vote this get an errata back to x3.

I am with you on that one.

[cndblank]

How about the specialization hate?

As a GM I love my players to specialize.
I get a better idea of what their backgrounds really were by looking at the specializations they pick.
And it helps differentiate the characters.
And right after character creation, they can really use the extra dice.


So now at character creation, it is one skill point to get a specialization?
Or 7 Karma?


I don't mind the increase in cost for specialization after character creation, and I like that you can have more than one specialization with a skill now.
But why make it so expensive at character creation when you need all the help you can get to define the character and keep the character alive?

[Shemhazai]

I like more knowledge skills too. Logic in SR5 forms a big part of the mental limit. Maybe it's more balanced.

Edit: Fractional skill point aversion?

[DireRadiant]

So now at character creation, it is one skill point to get a specialization?
Or 7 Karma?

p. 89 "At character creation, a specialization costs 1 skill
point. No individual skill may have more than one specialization"

If you buy a specialization at the 25 Karma phase of chargen, it will be 7 karma.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

How about the specialization hate?

As a GM I love my players to specialize.
I get a better idea of what their backgrounds really were by looking at the specializations they pick.
And it helps differentiate the characters.
And right after character creation, they can really use the extra dice.


So now at character creation, it is one skill point to get a specialization?
Or 7 Karma?


I don't mind the increase in cost for specialization after character creation, and I like that you can have more than one specialization with a skill now.
But why make it so expensive at character creation when you need all the help you can get to define the character and keep the character alive?

Indeed. I love the way that a Specialization can further define your character. Now, with the ability to have multiple specialties, you will end up diluting that, but I can get behind that, I guess.

[Bull]

Look at it like this. Most characters that specialize are going to use that specialty a lot, because that's their focus. And in that specialty, you're getting +2 skill points.

Even at MINIMUM, you're effectively buying Ranks 2 and 3 of that skill. Which would cost you (2*2=4)+(2*3=6)=10 karma. So you already have a discount.

And if you're specializing after a skill is at 4 or 5 or even 6 or higher? the savings are even more profound.

(And SR4's prices were ridiculously low. Don't compare them, because we threw a lot of that stuff out when we started rebalancing).

[Jaid]

i could've swore a few times i saw freelancers mention that the intention was to be able to break skill groups at chargen if you so desired using your skill points from priority.

the book is fairly clear that it can only be done with karma (page 88 if you need a reference)... was that just something i dreamed up, or is it something the freelancers didn't notice getting changed, or is that something that should have been changed and wasn't?

[Epicedion]

i could've swore a few times i saw freelancers mention that the intention was to be able to break skill groups at chargen if you so desired using your skill points from priority.

the book is fairly clear that it can only be done with karma (page 88 if you need a reference)... was that just something i dreamed up, or is it something the freelancers didn't notice getting changed, or is that something that should have been changed and wasn't?

Taking a Specialization breaks its associated group forever and ever -- but you can separate and put a skill group back together, freely, so long as you don't have a Specialization.

Also, if you buy a skill group in chargen with your skill group points, you can't also buy a specialization for 1 skill point and immediately break the group. You can use your Karma in the later step of chargen to do it, just not your skill points from priority.

EDIT: But you can buy a specialization for one skill point at that step, so long as the skill isn't in a group.

[NeoJudas]

I have found something I *REALLY* Like in the PDF... the Index is a link system to the page. Whomever did that should be hugged.

What I really wish is that references within the page where something says "see page 151, blahblah rule" would have also served as a link. Still really like the index as a link to a page though.

[Jaid]

Taking a Specialization breaks its associated group forever and ever -- but you can separate and put a skill group back together, freely, so long as you don't have a Specialization.

Also, if you buy a skill group in chargen with your skill group points, you can't also buy a specialization for 1 skill point and immediately break the group. You can use your Karma in the later step of chargen to do it, just not your skill points from priority.

EDIT: But you can buy a specialization for one skill point at that step, so long as the skill isn't in a group.

yes, i know that. that's what i said in my post. my question was regarding half-remembered freelancer comments, not about what the book says.

[Lurker37]

I'm still trying to work out what happens if you use cast a spell at a force equal to your magic attribute, then spend edge to ignore that limit, thus taking your number of successes past your magic attribute.

The rules italicise that limit must be applied first, but I'm not sure why the emphasis was made. If there is no limit (because you've spent edge), do you not take physical drain (a benefit of the edge used) or is spending edge to boost a spell also going to put you into physical drain territory?