So I'm looking at the Priority Table on page 65, and I can't find any explanation for the numbers in parentheses next to the metatypes. For example, Priority A has Human(9), while B has Human(7), etc. What are these numbers for?


EDIT: Nevermind, after a few re-reads it seems like these are "bonus" points for special attributes like Edge/Magic/Resonance.

That said, is it weird to anyone else that Elves are now cheaper than orks at chargen?

special attributes (edge, magic, resonace)

My question is did the archetypes spend their karma? And where are the street sam's contacts?

Here is a stumper...

Archetypes in the Quickstart have Knowledge Skills equal to (Int + Logic)x3, and I could swear that I saw a developer or freelancer mention that that limit for Free Knowledge Skills was (Int + Logic)x2. Which is correct? Is it x3 or x2?

x2. See Knowledge and Language Skills, SR5, p. 89.

Quickstart Rules were made with baseline assumptions on stats and attribute and default Force levels. They won't be easy to figure out unless you know those assumptions.

My dumb question is "Did we get a lore explanation for the sudden reduction in cost of manufacturing alpha, beta and deltagrade ware?" only because we did get one for the new matrix rules, and it sounds to me there's a possible run in there for a transition from 4th to 5th game.

Does anyone know WHY that was reduced? There is a distinct lack of Knowledge skills to start with, as many players do not ever purchase Knowledge skills post Character Generation (I am not one of those). So, What was the rationale for limiting even more choice in the system, as far as Knowledge Skills goes?

Not sure. I didn;t even notice they WERE reduced, to be honest. But it had been a while since I made an SR4 character, and since I've been using Hero Lab since it was in beta, I haven't actually looked at the formulas in that long.



My fault. Again, didn't realize there was a difference between the two, and when I went edited these I never even thought to check the numbers for knowledge skills. Sorry.

No Harm, No foul, Bull. Thanks for the info.
It would be nice to know WHY they were reduced, though. Anyone else have any info on this change?
Easy enough to set back to x3 if it is desired, at least.

It was kind of a last minute change (and one I was not thrilled with). I don't remember the entire argument made for it, and I don't want to misrepresent that argument (since I was on the other side), but I think it went something like "We want knowledge skills to be real investments, and the decision to matter more, so we thought giving less free points would make it a more meaningful decision" or something like that.

Nice to know, Critias... Thanks.
I am from the side you are probably on... I love the flexibility that Knowledge skills offer. They really help flesh out the concept of the character. I absolutely hate that they have been reduced in the new edition.

As a guy who already gave a lot of thought into knowledge skills and likes to tie them tightly to character history, I vote this get an errata back to x3.

The good news is, any game table that wants to can easily houserule 'em back to x3. The bad news is, that doesn't help me any when making sample characters for [redacted]. It was painful, having to have dudes almost done and then carve away knowledge skills, trust me. Painful! Nothin' sucks more than taking things off a character sheet, y'know?

I am with you on that one.

How about the specialization hate?

As a GM I love my players to specialize.
I get a better idea of what their backgrounds really were by looking at the specializations they pick.
And it helps differentiate the characters.
And right after character creation, they can really use the extra dice.


So now at character creation, it is one skill point to get a specialization?
Or 7 Karma?


I don't mind the increase in cost for specialization after character creation, and I like that you can have more than one specialization with a skill now.
But why make it so expensive at character creation when you need all the help you can get to define the character and keep the character alive?

I like more knowledge skills too. Logic in SR5 forms a big part of the mental limit. Maybe it's more balanced.

Edit: Fractional skill point aversion?

p. 89 "At character creation, a specialization costs 1 skill
point. No individual skill may have more than one specialization"

If you buy a specialization at the 25 Karma phase of chargen, it will be 7 karma.

Indeed. I love the way that a Specialization can further define your character. Now, with the ability to have multiple specialties, you will end up diluting that, but I can get behind that, I guess.

Look at it like this. Most characters that specialize are going to use that specialty a lot, because that's their focus. And in that specialty, you're getting +2 skill points.

Even at MINIMUM, you're effectively buying Ranks 2 and 3 of that skill. Which would cost you (2*2=4)+(2*3=6)=10 karma. So you already have a discount.

And if you're specializing after a skill is at 4 or 5 or even 6 or higher? the savings are even more profound.

(And SR4's prices were ridiculously low. Don't compare them, because we threw a lot of that stuff out when we started rebalancing).

i could've swore a few times i saw freelancers mention that the intention was to be able to break skill groups at chargen if you so desired using your skill points from priority.

the book is fairly clear that it can only be done with karma (page 88 if you need a reference)... was that just something i dreamed up, or is it something the freelancers didn't notice getting changed, or is that something that should have been changed and wasn't?

Taking a Specialization breaks its associated group forever and ever -- but you can separate and put a skill group back together, freely, so long as you don't have a Specialization.

Also, if you buy a skill group in chargen with your skill group points, you can't also buy a specialization for 1 skill point and immediately break the group. You can use your Karma in the later step of chargen to do it, just not your skill points from priority.

EDIT: But you can buy a specialization for one skill point at that step, so long as the skill isn't in a group.

I have found something I *REALLY* Like in the PDF... the Index is a link system to the page. Whomever did that should be hugged.

What I really wish is that references within the page where something says "see page 151, blahblah rule" would have also served as a link. Still really like the index as a link to a page though.

yes, i know that. that's what i said in my post. my question was regarding half-remembered freelancer comments, not about what the book says.

I'm still trying to work out what happens if you use cast a spell at a force equal to your magic attribute, then spend edge to ignore that limit, thus taking your number of successes past your magic attribute.

The rules italicise that limit must be applied first, but I'm not sure why the emphasis was made. If there is no limit (because you've spent edge), do you not take physical drain (a benefit of the edge used) or is spending edge to boost a spell also going to put you into physical drain territory?

I will say I really like the general layout of the book. Currently I'm taking notes for a long ass review. So far, in the bits I've been reading between yesterday and today, the outlook is 'Mostly positive-very much so-with some nitpicks and issues scattered about.'

My dumb question is jesus christ, what happened to the Suprathyroid? Nearly quadrupled in price with no actual in-game explanation. I mean the thing was a 20F Availability and 40k as it was; it was well out of the way of anyone who didn't take at least a decent amount of Resources AND Restricted Gear if you played by the books. I mean it's really good, yes, but jesus, it DID hit you with the increased lifestyle cost as it was(and still does), and there are better things. Given that Restricted Gear isn't in the corebook, and even Prime runner Availability is stuck at 15(I'd have personally put 16, but that's another taste-we still don't play with it of course, and I admit freely writing reviews I'm trying to keep my own personal tables PoV out of it somewhat), this thing would have been enough out of the way of most people. I mean hell, I could have even seen an increase to 60 or 70k, or even 80k doubled, but 140k I feel is a bit excessive. (I understand there are Limits in play now, but if I really, really wanted to get my Physical limit up 1 more point there were easier and cheaper ways to do it even if the Suprathyroid was cheaper.)

Methinks we'll be using the old one price-wise. (Mostly, I feel that, say, Wired Reflexes 2 is SO much more useful for a combat character, and those are genuinely easy to get, if not a bit Essence heavy. So it's like...I could believe a piece of ware that just came out being really expensive, but it usually drops in price. If they had some in-game handwave like 'Uhh, suddenly Lofwyr decided he likes to eat these with his fava beans so they got really rare and then the price went up' I might have bought it more.)

I have a dump question:

Sıince GOD leaves Securıty Spıders alone, can I just aquıre a Securıty Spider License and then GOD ıgnores all my misbehaviour ın the Matrıx?

Seems like a rather easy solution for the GOD problem...

The Drain is Physical damage.


There is an in-game explanation. I can't address it because of NDA, but bonus points if you can guess it before it gets published. =i)


Rules for fake licenses are on p. 419, with the gear entry on p. 443. Make sure you've tried to register with GOD before your OS caps out, but be warned that GOD has some really good verification systems.

The short answer is probably not, at least not in the core rule book.

Also, I like what you're doing with the ı's. =i)

I think he's looking for legit licenses, not fake ones.

So Qi-Foci stop working completely in Background count > 0?!
Usually foci function at a reduced force (F-BC). Afaik BC 1 is omnipresent...

For a legit license, you might want to try quitting the shadowrunning life and applying for a corporate SIN, an option that will be detailed in the upcoming Sarariman Sourcebook.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. What part of the book are you citing?

I know you won't be able to answer until Book X comes out, but I'll give it a shot.

My guess is that somehow they started getting more popular in sports, and a lot of big sports names/teams started using them, thus turning them into designer things, like Air Jordans or something, and the double-up of them being both A. Designer and B. Made for a lot of sports teams and thus a lot of the supply goes to professionals jacked up the price.

...Like I said, it's a shot. (EDIT: ..I just did a double take at the Muscle Augmentation and Toner, jesus! Yeah, something weird happened with certain Bioware methinks...but then other bioware dropped drastically, so that's...really weird. I really want to hear what the in-game explanations for these when the Augmentation book or whatnot hits. I DO understand that we get more money now, so the inflation of some things is kinda there-I mean we used to cap out at 250k and now we cap out at 450k which is a considerable difference and WOULD cause inflation, but some of the inflations are a bit beyond that, while, again, other things really took a drop in price.)

Actually, another question: this may also be under NDA for another book. Bone Density is suddenly saddled with variable Availability, where it wasn't before-BUT, it lowered in price drastically. Is that an in-game thing, or just an out of game thing of tweaking it? I always figured Bone Density was easy on the Availability(it IS still totally legal I notice) because it was used for stuff like helping people whose bones were deteoriating or something. How did the price go down so much(that tells me 'market is getting common with it' but Availability go up(which usually tells me something is rarer?)

Is there a cap on how many of your skills can be maxed out at 6, like in 4th Edition? If I take priority A on skills, can I bring a skill group up to 6?

Chargen caps are the same as they were in SR4, based on a dev blog entry.

Do Sorcery or Enchanting aspected magicians get their Magic x2 spells/preparations for free? Or is that just the maximum they can learn by spending karma?

Rereading the entry, it appears they don't get these spells for free since the same bullet point is made for Magicians, which begs the question why be a Sorcery or Enchanting Aspected Magician at all?

p. 74f Background still exists and reduces Magic
SR4 Street Magic p118 Focis' force is reduced by the background count (I extrapolate to SR5 anticipating a in some way similar rule)
p319 QI FOCI: The Force of the focus must be four times the Power Point cost of the power it holds.

=> My Force 4 QI focus holding a 1PP adept power will be reduced to Force 3 in a background count of 1 and rendered useless.

Hm, I should contact the guys who will work on the SR5 magic book...

It's a fair guess. =i)


I don't know of anything particularly official, but I do think there's a difference between bringing a bone back to its natural, healthy density and augmenting it beyond normal metahuman capabilities.

I have heard the complete opposite, that you can take as many skills as you are able to Rank 6 (much like in SR2/SR3). Would be nice to have a clarification.

So that Rating 4 Qi Focus is manufactured with 1 level (.25pp) of 4 different Adept Powers. Therefore, you only lose 1 power per BGC Level.

Nope.

Well, yes, but that's because you only have so many skill points. Same deal with skill groups. The max for each skill is 6, but there's no limit to the number of skills you can have at that level.

Physical and Mental attributes as a set are limited: you can only have one at the max.

EDIT: Let me double-check that real quick to make sure I didn't just lie to you.

EDIT2: Yes, the information above is correct.

EDIT3: Skill groups can also go up to 6, and you can have as many as you can buy up to that level.

How about the opposite direction? A spider takes a second job as shadowrunner, and the the game turns into Corporation: Give me your your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle -- I have an Appropriation License.
(This is totally not a jab at Corporation, I love the license concept)

As for the Suprathyroid, did the old version cause cancer and require extensive re-engineering?

If background count in SR5 works the same way as it does in SR4, then this is correct. If not, then there are a number of other things that could happen. Right now, I can't give you an SR5 answer.


Right now, the only one I know for certain who will be working on it is Line Developer Jason M. Hardy. =i)

Another fair guess, but I think "it caused cancer" is the lazy writer's way out of it. =i)

nm

Actually the original Suprathyroid was linked to causing impotence, which caused that one to drop right down in sales except for those who could afford the cost and essence for the libido enhancements, and yes those get a wireless bonus too but only if you also have visual gear linked in to broadcast.

Hmm, you know, thinking about the Bone Density Augmentation getting an Availability fluctuation(but staying legal), I think it could make sense given it's new, low low price: It's SO damn cheap that there's a good chance places can, in a sense, 'Sell Out' of it. I mean it used to be 20k/level, Availability of 12 period, regardless of level. Now it's a measly 5k/level, which means I can easily see enough people going to get it that it might be hard to get a spot in the clinic or whatnot when it comes to the highest level of it, causing a wait.


Not much else has changed Availability wise with the 'ware that i can see, but APDS is now a lot easier to get I notice. Figured eventually the stuff would end up more common on the market. Only took 20 years. (And again, most of the price increases seem pretty much in line with the 'inflation.' Just a few of them that I noticed were a *considerable* boost above what they used to be which made me curious.)

and damn, another question. Apologies.

With Qi Foci, it uses Improved Reflexes as an example, stating that a Qi foci for Imp. Reflexes 1 would have to be Force 6(4x the PP cost. 1.5x4=6), or 4 if the Adept already has Imp. Reflexes 1. So you don't need to have the Focus at the Force of the max, but only of the levels that are in the focus? (For a cleaner example, say an Adept has Improved Body Level 2 on their own, for 2 PP, but they would like Level 3. Would they need to get a Force 12 Focus to get the 3rd point of body(Level 3x4), or would they just need a Force 4 Foci holding Imp. Body Level 1, and then when it's active they would add it to their own, natural power that's already active? I'm guessing it's the first since the Improved Reflex example had it cheaper if the adept already has the power in question, but I'm just making sure.

I think the biggest change is grades adding to availability. I thought that was long overdue, and am 100% behind that. However, since grade factors in, I think that starting characters shouldn't have still been limited to alphaware as a tradeoff. (I also wonder if the delta +8 goes far enough.)

The part that makes no sense about that is this.

Say I REALLY want to be a human... so I put A into Race to be a human, but I want to be mundane (Magic E)... Edge is capped at 7 (8 with lucky) and I start at 2... What do I do with the remaining 4-5 special attribute points? I don't have anything else to put them in.

Considering that Delta Ware has reduce in Price by 75%... I think it is just fine.