I agree-I'd have liked to have seen beta grade available at the start-or at the very least, Prime games have Betaware available from the start. It's sorta like...the Beta grade adding to the availability might have taken care of some of the issue of it being available at Chargen.

I do, however, love how skills are no longer limited to 1 at 6. While I prefer the attributes not having that limitation either(I'm in the boat of 'if you want to dump that many stats, be my guest, don't come crying when it bites you in the rear'), but having the cap removed from the skills was quite nice.

EDIT: Throw in my vote for getting Knowledge Skills back to times 3, by the way. That change, that I can see, is kinda unnecessary. IMO, it means more points going toward languages and the aformentioned security procedures below and less going to Fine Wines and Goblin Rock, since that is *exactly* what I see happening with them on people's sheets; it's less 'meaningful choice' for what will likely be quite a few and more 'i'll just say my character likes fine wine and put the points into something like Security Procedures.' With x3, those will still be taken of course, but I absolutely saw more 'fun' knowledge skills on the sheet.

Pfft... be better to have made it x4 then. If I'm spending Karma on skills... the odds of me spending it on a Knowledge skill are less likely than an active/social/etc skill.

That said, I've gotten a few players to spend some karma on Knowledge... mostly languages and security procedures...

Hmm, how about "it caused a benign tumor leading to permanent voice breaking"?

As someone (Bull?) pointed out, you don't HAVE to spend your special points.
(I still think this is a cop-out, but it is a valid solution)

I suppose, but that's silly Granted taking A in race for a mundane human is stupid, I just was hoping (at least before I read book and/or pdf) that they'd have come up with something for mundane A race humans to do with them. That or let us take edge to 11. rofl

I have already seen one build where it was Human A and Mage C along with Lucky so that the points went into edge of 8 and bumping the magic back up to 6 Rest was Stats B, Skill D and resources E

Thought knocking the skills down like that may have been extreme but they really wanted to be a lucky mage for some reason

Course did not remind them that blowing edge on magic roll for those dice just means if he rolls more hits than magic he gets the physical burn even if he casts force at magic level since edge removed the limit, but we will wait for the first try

and the solution is "don't take priority A for humans that don't have special attributes other than edge to increase".

take whatever you were going to put as priority C, bump it up to A (because why not), and the problem goes away.

or, in other words, they did give you something to do: you get to bump up other areas higher than they otherwise would be. a mundane human with A for race and C for resources or skills or attributes gets the bonus of being able to put resources or skills or attributes up to A without harming their build. so for example, it could be worth 18 skill rating points and 8 skill group rating points, or 8 attribute points, or 310,000 nuyen.

each of those bonuses feel quite significant to me, personally.

I would like a serious answer to my question. It is not out of the Question to get a fake or even real licence as a security Spider. Just host a fanpage (or something) and enlist yourself as a Security Spider is not that hard to do.

And if that means I get the "Get out of the Jail Free" Card from GOD, it would be the first thing I did as a decker. Just saying.

And as you can read on page 367 there is a License for Occupations, such as Security Spider for example...


or if all else fails: Image a Runner with a SIN, he works as Security Spider on Demand in his Freetime, so he has a real SIN and a real License, so he would be the uberdecker, because GOD just leaves him alone.

cya
Tycho

As far as Human priority A:

I think about it like this. You're thinking, "I REALLY want to be Human, and I want to be the awesomest human around! METATYPE A, BRO!" Well, slow down, Tex. How about we set Metatype to C. Now, you get a choice: More resources, skills, or attributes? That's what being human is about in most RPG's. More flexibility at the cost of lower maximums. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Re: Knowledge x3 or x2

I can see that the change was well intentioned. But like the wireless bonuses for gear, probably not well-playtested. You have to do more than just lower the initial starting skills. There has to be a concerted effort in other areas of the game to make knowledge skills really matter. I haven't read the GM section, so I don't know how knowledge skill tests are emphasized there, but if you want players to actually spend Karma on knowledge skills, you have to incentivize that in the game mechanics. Right now, it's 100% GM fiat. Which I'm fine with, honestly. When I create a character, it will mean fewer knowledge skills like "Ancient MMORPG's" or "20th Century Comic Books".

Only prob I would see with the license is that it doesn't let you go everywhere with it. Please note this is just speculation of how it could work.

So you host a fanpage and get your valid Spider license. You go on a run later that week against Renraku assets and hack into their system.

One of the benefits of your license would be recognition by the system initially saying 'Hey, this guy is a licensed spider. It's probably cool.' Then you start to tangle with the local assets and system notices there is a conflict.

Then the system as a matter of determining jurisdiction/IFF of the two sides in the conflict notes your license's remit is for the task of spidering for the Bull The Ork Decker Yoai Fangirl site.

This by itself still won't invalidate you being there automatically (you might be helping a bad situation) but if the other side has licensing saying they are Renraku, now you have a problem. The system will determine you are acting in violation of the license's remit and alert GOD of the discrepancy which will trigger a review/audit by GOD and since you provided a SIN they have a trail to follow. Just like the police have internal affairs to look for dirty cops, I am sure GOD uses something similar to look into cases of rogue licensed spiders and they will try to take action on this if you can not provide one hell of a good reason for being where you were. The fact you were licensed will give you the opportunity to defend yourself as you might have a valid reason, like say you were hired by someone within the company to test their systems or some such. Or they smell BS and revoke the license and issue a fine if you are lucky or send some nice men in dark suits to make you disappear because they won't bother taking you to court and let people know they had a rogue decker on their approved list. Bad for their image.

Possibly. There are no guidelines for that in the core rule book, so your GM will have to make the call. Still, I expect that if you created a fansite host (also something not currently available in the rules), and then registered yourself as the security spider for that host, I expect that your GOD waiver would only be good in that host, not in the Matrix as a whole. Much the same way that a security guard isn't allowed to, outside of his building, go on a shooting rampage through town, a security spider isn't allowed to, outside of her host, go on a Data Spiking rampage through the grid.

The bottom line, though, is that there is currently no rule system in place for either legitimate employment or owning your own host.

What? I can't go be a moderator and ban people outside Dumpshock?

Dunno. Ever try?

The rules say you might...Of course, G-men, security spiders, IC, and other users who are officially sanctioned by GOD never rack up an Overwatch Score, even if they’re really misbehaving. Such is life on the Matrix. And in the meat world, too, come to think about it. (p. 232)
Important part highlighted. But once you are sanctioned, you can go around nuking people for fun.

It's being discussed and worked on. Since Chicago is full of Background Counts, I think you shoudl see the first official rulings for how Background COunts work in SR5 in Season 5 of Shadowrun Missions, the first adventure of which should be out soon.

He's tried at Origins and Gen Con a few times. We just laughed at him. Then he drank all our Scotch.

Then make your Metatype priority a "C" (for a maxed out Edge) and leave the priority "A" for something like skills, Attributes or Resources.

I was wondering whether the Astral Limit applies to soaking drain. I have so-far been unable to determine this from any of the in-book examples.

Thanks in advance!
--
gargaM0NK

I got banned* once. Now I have to read the most horribly written stories ever. And want to drink all the scotch.

*ok, ok, from a contest.

Can I put a laser sight on a Taser? Are there rules for what kind of gun can or can't have a laser sight/Smartlink?

It does seem to imply that by the wording.

So if Tycho got his license and ran amok in the Renraku example, he would not rack up the score and thus not draw GOD's immediate ire from that. The Renraku spider however would be able to ID Tycho though, he is licensed. He can't claim the immunity of the license and not be showing said license otherwise the system would start showing a Score. So the Rennie has to kick him out himself, send a team to the licensed address (good thing Tycho probably has a secondary address he 'works' from) and lodge a protest with GOD which could take a while to process and review.


Interesting... I still suspect there are limits to the license and where it can be applied, but it does look like there is more to this.

You need the edge for drain rolls. Magicians were nerfed hard, remember?

So quick question on the archtypes: Is the formula on pg 101 incorrect or are the archtypes wrong? For the mental limits the formula sheet states [(logic * 2) + Intuition + Willpower] / 3 (round up). For the decker on pg 121 it has a mental limit of 6(7) listed, but the math works out as follows: [(5*2) +4 + 5]/3 = [10 + 4 + 5]/3 = 19/3 = 6.3333 9rounded up) = 7 and for the boosted logic would be (. It appears that the others (except the drone rigger) are correct so I am guessing it is a typo in the decker (and rigger).

A bunch of the archetypes were created rounding down instead of up by accident (The "round up" thing was codified late in the process). This has been noted in the Errata and will be addressed.

Thanks Bull... you're the best!

Sure, but if you just use your license outside of other Hosts you can attack etc whatever you like and GOD does not care. Seems still like a great Deal.

But like all licenses, it can be taken away and you can be fined for misusing it. There's no hard rules for it yet because it's really outside the scope of what runners should be doing, but there ya go.

Actually it is not as bad as I first thought. Quite a few spells are F-X and when you look at the numbers you are not terribly off unless you go overcasting of want to go with AOE spells

For example Manabolt under SR4 was F/2 so if I cast Force at 6 (assuming Magic 6 for this example) the drain was 3. Overcast at 8 and drain was 4. Max out Overcast at Force 12 and its 6.

Now under new system Manabolt is F-3 so Force 6 is still drain 3. Overcast at 8 and drain climbs to 5. Maxing out the Overcast at Force 12 and drain becomes a mean 9.

Granted there is the issue of healing from drain, but unless you go balls to the walls overcasting you can balance it out a bit.

Not entirely happy with the new casting/drain system, but it could still be playable.

GOD may restrict the greater immunities to employees of A and above corps, or be quicker to redflag spiders not of that level who are acting up. They are probaly more leery issuing licenses to spiders of what look like fly by night affairs.
It might make a great short term scam though, especially if you can get the license tied to a reputable business. It'd be expensive though from the fact that you'd be tossing a high rating ID into the garbage (It'd have to be high rating to get by GOD's background checks) I could see this being done by a shadowrun team though to gain an edge for a hugely important run. They might have to complete an extra shadowrun though just to get the license and ID tied to a reputable business.

Ok, only read through the matrix section once but I was trying to figure out the whole "Decker protecting your team from bricking" .. counterbricking? ... system.

Far as I can tell is that to do this you're gonna want to slave the devices to your deck, therefore you can use the deck/decker's stats for matrix defense, instead of your logic-defecient/DR 2 sammie's smartgun (i'm away from the book, so my numbers are probably wrong).

You're limited to your decks.. device rating x 3 I think.. number of devices slaved. So, do you just have to choose the X number of items to protect? Be kinda lame to guard your sammies gun and eyes, but forget that arm that has a cybershotgun in it wouldn't it? Although, for a PC hacker that might provoke interesting and creative solutions to their opfor having hacker protection.

Can your chummers slave their devices to a commlink, then slave the commlink to the decker?

No, they don't, the Rules clearly state it otherwise:


so, really misbehaving is not a problem for all the other security spiders.

Why is it out of the scoop what runners should do. Runners are trying to not get caught! So concealing yourself as a Security Spider is totally a thing a Decker should do, because they don't want to be caught by GOD. And it was the first thing that sprung to mind for me, when I read this text, so at least the more witty deckers should think of it, too.

It is like saying, getting a Fake SIN to blend into Society is out of the scoop what Runners should do.

Someone should have just thought the whole thing through before writing the text.

I imagine it was because they wanted the NPCs to sound like they have all the power and could do what they want. They didn't count on you signing on for that same power.

Well played sir. Damn fine rule lawyering, even if I do believe we will be shot down for it.

p.s. its scope not scoop.

Only for security spiders officially sanctioned by GOD. At that point they're part of the virtual blue wall.

Sure, but they should have thought about it. It is like saying "FBI, Policer Officers and Private Detectives are above the law. The will never be suspected in a crime no matter the evidence." and on the other page: "Want a Private Detective License, no big deal costs like R*200Y." So if the police finds you standing over a body with the bloody knife. You just say: "Hey guys, we a on the same side, I am a Private Detective just trying to solve the murder here, you know..." and show them your License




Well I read the List as following:
1. G-men
2. security spiders
3. IC
4. other users who are officially sanctioned by GOD

mostly because G-Man are a part of GOD and need no sanction, IC is not a User, so the sanctioned part is only for the "other users"

Pretty sure I've read stories by Raymond Chandler where this is exactly what happened to Philip Marlowe...

But your point is taken. My guess is that to get GOD sanctioned, you're gonna have some more serious backgroung checking (for fakes) as well as some significant oversight. Sure your score won't go up, but if you go wreck a Renraku system and claim "no biggie, GOD certified spider here"; Renraku is gonna go cry to GOD and they're gonna wonder if your license is worth the headache you just caused them. Better hope it was...

But why would anybody be bothered to get "sanctioned" if he only needed to get hired as a spider in some hinterland host and automatically receive the same rights?

I agree that the statement is ambiguous (and should be errataed), but with a bit of thinking it seems clear to me what was intended: Prosecution of police brutality happens in VR like IRL (namely not at all), but not every bouncer gets protected by the blue wall.

It says they don't rack up an overwatch score. That doesn't mean their activities aren't tracked otherwise (Having a legal license pretty much means EVERYTHING you do is tracked, since it has to be turned on to tell the system you're a legal user), and it doesn't mean other measures won't be taken.

Plus I imagine that becoming a member of GOD is a lot like becoming a member of the FBI or CIA. Something that involves a lot of training, a lot of background checks, and a lot of prep before they hand you that badge. So your average Shadowrunner is not going to just "get one". Granted, they could always stop being a runner for a few years, go work for a corp, work their way into it. Then piss it all away by misbehaving.

And hey, if you're running with a Fake license, awesome. More power to you. But don't get caught or they will burn you to the ground.

And as a note, every mom and pop host doesn't have a GOD or demiGOD. So just owning a businesses doesn't give you GOD access, since someone suggested it I think. It just means that GOD isn't going to come in and patrol your host. They'll leave you to handle that on your own, hiring security spiders and the like.

GOD's domains are the grids as a whole. Not hosts.

I'm certain this will be explained further in a matrix sourcebook down the line. But right now, you're trying to take a simple flavor explanation and make a rule out of it, and that's not the intention. Stop that.

Bull

OK stupid question, but do bursts add to DV as well as penalising defence tests? Because I can't see where it says they do.

They do not add to DV anymore, just make dodging harder.

As I said, I understand the price increase, but think it should be cheaper in character generation.
New characters can use the extra dice and the extra character definition that specializations provide.
I may house rule 3 free specializations.

Am I the only one to whom the run rewards section on cash is making absolutely zero sense from an in game perspective? I can't think of a single run in any edition that I've run or played where Mr. Johnson didn't tell the Runners how much they were getting payed before the run, not after they came back and told him how hard it was. The latter is literally what the rules in that section seem to be telling me to do. I'm grateful to finally have some guidelines but I would appreciate them more if they made sense.

That is a really good question. Can you daisy-chain slaved devices? Say, the Sammie slaves all to his commlink (his PAN), then his commlink to the Decker?

So far, I'm going through the chapters one by one(I'm not adding the fiction into the review-I checked it out and it's fun, but I'm not reviewing it), and each one seems similar for me; mostly positive with a few head-scratchers or small disagreements(Loss of Confidence seems cool on the surface but I don't quite *get* it, it's worded that there is a test involved but then it looks to me like you take a skill and then take this quality and permanently use the skill at 2 less...where if someone wanted it for character purposes they could have just bought the skill at 2 less to begin with?, as well as 'Prime rules really should allow betaware and have the Availability at 16 instead), and yes, an 'Oh come ON' now and then(the Knowledge Skill x 2 change, Incompetence being worth too little out of fear of Incompetence: Basketweaving which a GM should just nix in the first place, Uncouth and Uneducated continuing being useless. I'll chalk the Sensitive System change up to 'different tables, different experiences' as I've mentioned in another thread-for us, it was never taken lightly since cyber for magically active was ALWAYS an option, but for others it seemed to be free points-but I'll be houseruling it back to the old way as to not double-hose magically active people.)

I have some 'I'm not sure how I feel about this yet' IRT the Wireless/Wired cyberware. I'm definitely not in the doom crowd of 'that's it, Sams are dead, we had a good run', but I am in the 'I really, really would have to see this in practice, I don't think I'm going to be able to really get how I feel from the book itself.' I can see what the point of it was; give cybered characters an extra edge above and beyond the cyber, but with the 'everything has a price' theme, they open themselves up to problems unless they have a hacker buddy(or perhaps one happens to be a sam whose pretty hot with a computer himself...)

Oh yeah, that Qi foci question I had, btw-I know the focus stacks with what the Adept actually has, as the example. But what force would a Qi foci have to be if the adept already had, for example, Improved Body 2, and wanted their Qi foci to be Improved Body 1? Would it be force 4 and add onto the 2 the adept already has?(Btw, I am seriously loving the Qi foci concept.)

"A character with a National SIN pays fifteen percent of their gross income in taxes." Am I wildly misinterpreting this? Does having SINner quality entail paying money on a regular basis? Or will the records of whoever issued the SIN just show that you owe them money?

I'd assume that you'd need to declare a certain amount of income that justifies your varying expenses, and pay taxes on that.

So, an Adept can have a maximum skill level of 20!?
Natural 13 with Aptitude
7 levels of Improved Ability

Okay, but you're not required to use the SIN (and pay the associated taxes), are you? Can't you just get a few fakes and hope your actual one remains under wraps? Compared to what you've probably already done as a runner, tax evasion is kind of a drop in the bucket.

So, what do you figure is going to happen to your real SIN if absolutely nothing happens with it for a long stretch of time? Seems like something that might raise a flag in the system.

Point taken. But if a PC abandoned their corporation or what have you for the shadows, that wouldn't make much sense. They'd show up as missing, but still paying their taxes.

Maybe the 4th ed version of the quality gave me the wrong impression. I've always thought of a legal SIN as part of a PC's past that might come back to haunt them. Not an identity to be maintained as if they were a superhero.

You can abandon your identity if you want. The problem is that now they're looking for you (not particularly hard, you're just another missing person) and they have your fingerprints/retina scans / DNA.