Dumb 5th Edition questions, I know I have some, do you? Options

[Tycho]

It does seem to imply that by the wording.

So if Tycho got his license and ran amok in the Renraku example, he would not rack up the score and thus not draw GOD's immediate ire from that. The Renraku spider however would be able to ID Tycho though, he is licensed. He can't claim the immunity of the license and not be showing said license otherwise the system would start showing a Score. So the Rennie has to kick him out himself, send a team to the licensed address (good thing Tycho probably has a secondary address he 'works' from) and lodge a protest with GOD which could take a while to process and review.


Interesting... I still suspect there are limits to the license and where it can be applied, but it does look like there is more to this.

Sure, but if you just use your license outside of other Hosts you can attack etc whatever you like and GOD does not care. Seems still like a great Deal.

[Bull]

Sure, but if you just use your license outside of other Hosts you can attack etc whatever you like and GOD does not care. Seems still like a great Deal.

But like all licenses, it can be taken away and you can be fined for misusing it. There's no hard rules for it yet because it's really outside the scope of what runners should be doing, but there ya go.

[Sendaz]

You need the edge for drain rolls. Magicians were nerfed hard, remember?

Actually it is not as bad as I first thought. Quite a few spells are F-X and when you look at the numbers you are not terribly off unless you go overcasting of want to go with AOE spells

For example Manabolt under SR4 was F/2 so if I cast Force at 6 (assuming Magic 6 for this example) the drain was 3. Overcast at 8 and drain was 4. Max out Overcast at Force 12 and its 6.

Now under new system Manabolt is F-3 so Force 6 is still drain 3. Overcast at 8 and drain climbs to 5. Maxing out the Overcast at Force 12 and drain becomes a mean 9.

Granted there is the issue of healing from drain, but unless you go balls to the walls overcasting you can balance it out a bit.

Not entirely happy with the new casting/drain system, but it could still be playable.

[GiraffeShaman]

GOD may restrict the greater immunities to employees of A and above corps, or be quicker to redflag spiders not of that level who are acting up. They are probaly more leery issuing licenses to spiders of what look like fly by night affairs.
It might make a great short term scam though, especially if you can get the license tied to a reputable business. It'd be expensive though from the fact that you'd be tossing a high rating ID into the garbage (It'd have to be high rating to get by GOD's background checks) I could see this being done by a shadowrun team though to gain an edge for a hugely important run. They might have to complete an extra shadowrun though just to get the license and ID tied to a reputable business.

[Remnar]

Ok, only read through the matrix section once but I was trying to figure out the whole "Decker protecting your team from bricking" .. counterbricking? ... system.

Far as I can tell is that to do this you're gonna want to slave the devices to your deck, therefore you can use the deck/decker's stats for matrix defense, instead of your logic-defecient/DR 2 sammie's smartgun (i'm away from the book, so my numbers are probably wrong).

You're limited to your decks.. device rating x 3 I think.. number of devices slaved. So, do you just have to choose the X number of items to protect? Be kinda lame to guard your sammies gun and eyes, but forget that arm that has a cybershotgun in it wouldn't it? Although, for a PC hacker that might provoke interesting and creative solutions to their opfor having hacker protection.

Can your chummers slave their devices to a commlink, then slave the commlink to the decker?

[Tycho]

But like all licenses, it can be taken away and you can be fined for misusing it. There's no hard rules for it yet because it's really outside the scope of what runners should be doing, but there ya go.

No, they don't, the Rules clearly state it otherwise:

Of course, G-men, security spiders, IC, and other users who are officially sanctioned by GOD never rack up an Overwatch Score, even if they’re really misbehaving.

so, really misbehaving is not a problem for all the other security spiders.

Why is it out of the scoop what runners should do. Runners are trying to not get caught! So concealing yourself as a Security Spider is totally a thing a Decker should do, because they don't want to be caught by GOD. And it was the first thing that sprung to mind for me, when I read this text, so at least the more witty deckers should think of it, too.

It is like saying, getting a Fake SIN to blend into Society is out of the scoop what Runners should do.

Someone should have just thought the whole thing through before writing the text.

[Sendaz]

No, they don't, the Rules clearly state it otherwise:


so, really misbehaving is not a problem for all the other security spiders.

Why is it out of the scoop what runners should do. Runners are trying to not get caught! So concealing yourself as a Security Spider is totally a thing a Decker should do, because they don't want to be caught by GOD. And it was the first thing that sprung to mind for me, when I read this text, so at least the more witty deckers should think of it, too.

It is like saying, getting a Fake SIN to blend into Society is out of the scoop what Runners should do.

Someone should have just thought the whole thing through before writing the text.

I imagine it was because they wanted the NPCs to sound like they have all the power and could do what they want. They didn't count on you signing on for that same power.

Well played sir. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Damn fine rule lawyering, even if I do believe we will be shot down for it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

p.s. its scope not scoop.

[Sengir]

so, really misbehaving is not a problem for all the other security spiders.

Only for security spiders officially sanctioned by GOD. At that point they're part of the virtual blue wall.

[Tycho]

I imagine it was because they wanted the NPCs to sound like they have all the power and could do what they want. They didn't count on you signing on for that same power.

Sure, but they should have thought about it. It is like saying "FBI, Policer Officers and Private Detectives are above the law. The will never be suspected in a crime no matter the evidence." and on the other page: "Want a Private Detective License, no big deal costs like R*200Y." So if the police finds you standing over a body with the bloody knife. You just say: "Hey guys, we a on the same side, I am a Private Detective just trying to solve the murder here, you know..." and show them your License

Only for security spiders officially sanctioned by GOD. At that point they're part of the virtual blue wall.

Well I read the List as following:
1. G-men
2. security spiders
3. IC
4. other users who are officially sanctioned by GOD

mostly because G-Man are a part of GOD and need no sanction, IC is not a User, so the sanctioned part is only for the "other users"

[Remnar]

So if the police finds you standing over a body with the bloody knife. You just say: "Hey guys, we a on the same side, I am a Private Detective just trying to solve the murder here, you know..." and show them your License

Pretty sure I've read stories by Raymond Chandler where this is exactly what happened to Philip Marlowe...

But your point is taken. My guess is that to get GOD sanctioned, you're gonna have some more serious backgroung checking (for fakes) as well as some significant oversight. Sure your score won't go up, but if you go wreck a Renraku system and claim "no biggie, GOD certified spider here"; Renraku is gonna go cry to GOD and they're gonna wonder if your license is worth the headache you just caused them. Better hope it was...

[Sengir]

Well I read the List as following:
1. G-men
2. security spiders
3. IC
4. other users who are officially sanctioned by GOD

mostly because G-Man are a part of GOD and need no sanction, IC is not a User, so the sanctioned part is only for the "other users"

But why would anybody be bothered to get "sanctioned" if he only needed to get hired as a spider in some hinterland host and automatically receive the same rights? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I agree that the statement is ambiguous (and should be errataed), but with a bit of thinking it seems clear to me what was intended: Prosecution of police brutality happens in VR like IRL (namely not at all), but not every bouncer gets protected by the blue wall.

[Bull]

No, they don't, the Rules clearly state it otherwise:


so, really misbehaving is not a problem for all the other security spiders.

It says they don't rack up an overwatch score. That doesn't mean their activities aren't tracked otherwise (Having a legal license pretty much means EVERYTHING you do is tracked, since it has to be turned on to tell the system you're a legal user), and it doesn't mean other measures won't be taken.

Plus I imagine that becoming a member of GOD is a lot like becoming a member of the FBI or CIA. Something that involves a lot of training, a lot of background checks, and a lot of prep before they hand you that badge. So your average Shadowrunner is not going to just "get one". Granted, they could always stop being a runner for a few years, go work for a corp, work their way into it. Then piss it all away by misbehaving.

And hey, if you're running with a Fake license, awesome. More power to you. But don't get caught or they will burn you to the ground.

And as a note, every mom and pop host doesn't have a GOD or demiGOD. So just owning a businesses doesn't give you GOD access, since someone suggested it I think. It just means that GOD isn't going to come in and patrol your host. They'll leave you to handle that on your own, hiring security spiders and the like.

GOD's domains are the grids as a whole. Not hosts.

I'm certain this will be explained further in a matrix sourcebook down the line. But right now, you're trying to take a simple flavor explanation and make a rule out of it, and that's not the intention. Stop that.

Bull

[Dancer]

OK stupid question, but do bursts add to DV as well as penalising defence tests? Because I can't see where it says they do.

[Bull]

OK stupid question, but do bursts add to DV as well as penalising defence tests? Because I can't see where it says they do.

They do not add to DV anymore, just make dodging harder.

[cndblank]

Look at it like this. Most characters that specialize are going to use that specialty a lot, because that's their focus. And in that specialty, you're getting +2 skill points.

Even at MINIMUM, you're effectively buying Ranks 2 and 3 of that skill. Which would cost you (2*2=4)+(2*3=6)=10 karma. So you already have a discount.

And if you're specializing after a skill is at 4 or 5 or even 6 or higher? the savings are even more profound.

(And SR4's prices were ridiculously low. Don't compare them, because we threw a lot of that stuff out when we started rebalancing).

As I said, I understand the price increase, but think it should be cheaper in character generation.
New characters can use the extra dice and the extra character definition that specializations provide.
I may house rule 3 free specializations.

[redwulf25]

Am I the only one to whom the run rewards section on cash is making absolutely zero sense from an in game perspective? I can't think of a single run in any edition that I've run or played where Mr. Johnson didn't tell the Runners how much they were getting payed before the run, not after they came back and told him how hard it was. The latter is literally what the rules in that section seem to be telling me to do. I'm grateful to finally have some guidelines but I would appreciate them more if they made sense.

[Razhul]

Can your chummers slave their devices to a commlink, then slave the commlink to the decker?

That is a really good question. Can you daisy-chain slaved devices? Say, the Sammie slaves all to his commlink (his PAN), then his commlink to the Decker?

[ElFenrir]

So far, I'm going through the chapters one by one(I'm not adding the fiction into the review-I checked it out and it's fun, but I'm not reviewing it), and each one seems similar for me; mostly positive with a few head-scratchers or small disagreements(Loss of Confidence seems cool on the surface but I don't quite *get* it, it's worded that there is a test involved but then it looks to me like you take a skill and then take this quality and permanently use the skill at 2 less...where if someone wanted it for character purposes they could have just bought the skill at 2 less to begin with?, as well as 'Prime rules really should allow betaware and have the Availability at 16 instead), and yes, an 'Oh come ON' now and then(the Knowledge Skill x 2 change, Incompetence being worth too little out of fear of Incompetence: Basketweaving which a GM should just nix in the first place, Uncouth and Uneducated continuing being useless. I'll chalk the Sensitive System change up to 'different tables, different experiences' as I've mentioned in another thread-for us, it was never taken lightly since cyber for magically active was ALWAYS an option, but for others it seemed to be free points-but I'll be houseruling it back to the old way as to not double-hose magically active people.)

I have some 'I'm not sure how I feel about this yet' IRT the Wireless/Wired cyberware. I'm definitely not in the doom crowd of 'that's it, Sams are dead, we had a good run', but I am in the 'I really, really would have to see this in practice, I don't think I'm going to be able to really get how I feel from the book itself.' I can see what the point of it was; give cybered characters an extra edge above and beyond the cyber, but with the 'everything has a price' theme, they open themselves up to problems unless they have a hacker buddy(or perhaps one happens to be a sam whose pretty hot with a computer himself...)

Oh yeah, that Qi foci question I had, btw-I know the focus stacks with what the Adept actually has, as the example. But what force would a Qi foci have to be if the adept already had, for example, Improved Body 2, and wanted their Qi foci to be Improved Body 1? Would it be force 4 and add onto the 2 the adept already has?(Btw, I am seriously loving the Qi foci concept.)

[RdMarquis]

"A character with a National SIN pays fifteen percent of their gross income in taxes." Am I wildly misinterpreting this? Does having SINner quality entail paying money on a regular basis? Or will the records of whoever issued the SIN just show that you owe them money?

[RHat]

"A character with a National SIN pays fifteen percent of their gross income in taxes." Am I wildly misinterpreting this? Does having SINner quality entail paying money on a regular basis? Or will the records of whoever issued the SIN just show that you owe them money?

I'd assume that you'd need to declare a certain amount of income that justifies your varying expenses, and pay taxes on that.

[Makki]

So, an Adept can have a maximum skill level of 20!?
Natural 13 with Aptitude
7 levels of Improved Ability

[RdMarquis]

I'd assume that you'd need to declare a certain amount of income that justifies your varying expenses, and pay taxes on that.

Okay, but you're not required to use the SIN (and pay the associated taxes), are you? Can't you just get a few fakes and hope your actual one remains under wraps? Compared to what you've probably already done as a runner, tax evasion is kind of a drop in the bucket.

[RHat]

Okay, but you're not required to use the SIN (and pay the associated taxes), are you? Can't you just get a few fakes and hope your actual one remains under wraps?

So, what do you figure is going to happen to your real SIN if absolutely nothing happens with it for a long stretch of time? Seems like something that might raise a flag in the system.

[RdMarquis]

So, what do you figure is going to happen to your real SIN if absolutely nothing happens with it for a long stretch of time? Seems like something that might raise a flag in the system.

Point taken. But if a PC abandoned their corporation or what have you for the shadows, that wouldn't make much sense. They'd show up as missing, but still paying their taxes.

Maybe the 4th ed version of the quality gave me the wrong impression. I've always thought of a legal SIN as part of a PC's past that might come back to haunt them. Not an identity to be maintained as if they were a superhero.

[Dancer]

Point taken. But if a PC abandoned their corporation or what have you for the shadows, that wouldn't make much sense. They'd show up as missing, but still paying their taxes.

Maybe the 4th ed version of the quality gave me the wrong impression. I've always thought of a legal SIN as part of a PC's past that might come back to haunt them. Not an identity to be maintained as if they were a superhero.

You can abandon your identity if you want. The problem is that now they're looking for you (not particularly hard, you're just another missing person) and they have your fingerprints/retina scans / DNA.