An SR5 actual game report Options

[Remnar]

See, I don't care where you stand on combat hacking or the wireless bonuses - I think we can ALL agree that this is fragging awesome.

I agree.

Thanks for sharing, please let us hear about the next session. I want to see how the ambush turns out!

[cndblank]

If he hadn't been so stubborn and gone under the wing of the team hacker, he would have been fine. The opfor was probing them for a while, but he couldn't get any hits on the Perception to get past the hacker's Running Silent security for the rest of the team. The only way he managed to get to the sniper was because he refused the hacker's extra security. Oddly enough, he agreed to have his stuff slaved under the hacker now... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And as to why he wasn't completely turned off, one one hand the general 2075 attitude is that that is a very odd thing to do in the first place, especially for characters who in-game are not Matrix experts and don't fully understand what could happen to them, and on the other hand, the sniper does enjoy sharing his scope field of vision with the team (and vice versa)

I would suggest that he purchase a separate gun camera so that all a decker could do is interfere with the picture he was sending the team.

I would think all the sniper forums would say first thing is go offline before a shot.

He could have been directly connected via a datajack or a smartgun link induction pad to his rifle with the wireless off.

By using a comlink with an ear piece and throat mike (maybe shades with image link) there would be no connection to his DNI via the data jack so no way to get to his cyberware or the rifle.

Or the sniper's comlink is linked to a micro thin fiber optic line (that he ran as he moved to position) that leads back to a laser comlink a good distance away from the action.
The laser comlink could then connect him to a drone with a laser comlink, his team, a tacnet, and/or the matrix. There would be no wireless signal any where near the sniper.

I could see the professionals having weapons with limited capacity.
You know the military is not going to want weapons that can be hacked.

Say with a smartgun link that provides targeting info and a camera view, but has no other connection with the weapon. So for example no ejecting the clip by command. There is a manual override to go to a plain scope and or laser sight.

A non wireless grenade launcher with airburst with mingrenades that are given a fix range to explode at. Of course the minigrenades can not be armed until they have been fired and traveled the minimum safe distance.

Why would anyone carry a Wireless grenades that didn't have a hardware detonation system that doesn't arm until 2 seconds after the pin is pulled and the grenade is thrown. Only once the hardware detonator has armed can the wireless system activate it.

If that is too complicated and expensive what about wireless grenades that are turned off and can only be turned on when the grenade pin is pulled. Pull the grenade off your belt, pull the pin, the wireless goes active, give it a command or select one of several presets, throw.

Gun Camera's that only transmit the feed to the wireless and can not receive.
If you want to change a setting or position, you use the separate comlink to tell the sniper to manually change the gun camera settings or position.

[Bigity]

I agree.

Thanks for sharing, please let us hear about the next session. I want to see how the ambush turns out!

Indeed - if you can let it slide that all this kind of thing is out there for the world to hack.

It's hard (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I mean, see the discussion about the mechanical rifle being subjected to wifi hacking attacks (RAW, not what they did in the game session - I can dig the smartlink being bricked).



The idea of more wireless stuff, giving the hacker a 'non-combat combat role' is nice. Getting used to just saying 'all this stuff is hackable now' is going to take large amounts of salt.

[cndblank]

That is what house rules are for.
Every thing is hackable.....
unless the target is a pro using proper military matrix security SOP.

And unless the decker has time to prepare, hardware always beats software.

[Bigity]

That is what house rules are for.
Every thing is hackable.....
unless the target is a pro using proper military matrix security SOP.

And unless the decker has time to prepare, hardware always beats software.

But then are you taking away stuff for the deckers to do? Are they back to being a secondary gun hand?

I guess maybe the best option overall is to tweak the wireless bonuses to 1) not be dumb and 2) maybe give a bonus that makes more sense than RAW so there is incentive to leave wifi on and let your decker/TM defend it.

[Backgammon]

Oh, I just thought of something funny. It doesn't have any SR5 rules crunch, but seeing how some people enjoyed the story, this may amuse you.

So, more detail on the courtyard scene - when the team saw the courtyard, they all kind of paused and starting looking at it. They saw a dwarf living in a shack. After some observation, the Face decides to go try to talk to him. At that point, a glowing ball appears in the middle of the courtyard. The team goes "wtf?". The dwarf denizen - really, having very little to live for anyway - decides to go check it out. He walks up to it, listens, nods, and walks back to the Face.

"It's for you" he tells her.

Face blinks at the dwarf. "What do you mean?"

"It's for you", repeats the dwarf.

Face cocks an eyebrow, and the team agrees she should go check it out. Face walks up to it, gets her head close to the ball. It whispers "We want Mazen Mor" [this is the name of the Sniper wanted by the Fallen, but, due to his paranoia, most of the team only know his name is Mazen. Also, us Players are in Montreal and we're all bilingual english/french, and while we play in english, "Mor" sounds like "Mort" which is the french word for death. This will matter in a few seconds]

Face says "Uh, what do you mean?"

"Bring us Mazen Mor" it whispers again. Now, this is magical communication, so the team's audio-net isn't picking it up. All the team members are staring at him from a safe distance away (except for the hacker who is wondering how come his fly spy just went dark [it got bricked at this point, too]

"Well, uh, why would we do that?" asks the Face.

"Bring him, or you will all diiiieeeee" whispers the orb.

"Uh, that's not very friendly" says the Face, looking increasingly nervous.

Face decides this is not a decision for her, and yells to the Sniper "Mazen, it wants you dead!"

At this point, out of game, I comment "That's not quite what it said", but the Face Player confirms "That's what I say". So, no misunderstanding, so we go with it. The sniper, who is the only one that has an inkling of the shit they're in, freaks out and shoots the orb to oblivion. At this point, the opfor Shadowrunner team figure they tried negotiations and that didn't work, so they open fire, and ensure the rest.

After the game, we're talking and the Face's player says "Mazen Mor... that's your name? I though it said "we want Mazen mort"... as in, literally in a little frenglish moment, "we want mazen dead".

Heh.

[Sendaz]

that is an awesome bit of RP (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Daedelus]

oh dear...

Actually under the new system ALL devices, right down to your Ruger Super Warhawk (you would think its just a mechanical pistol right?) has a wireless capability and can be bricked.

Don't ask...

But the good news is you can either rip it out or buy a increasingly rare throwback version that never got the wireless put in.

Or turn it off.

[cndblank]

But then are you taking away stuff for the deckers to do? Are they back to being a secondary gun hand?

I guess maybe the best option overall is to tweak the wireless bonuses to 1) not be dumb and 2) maybe give a bonus that makes more sense than RAW so there is incentive to leave wifi on and let your decker/TM defend it.

How many pros do runners usually come across in a run?
SWAT, High Threat Response Team like the Red Samurai, Secret Service security detail, an experienced team of shadowrunners?
And only when they are expecting trouble.

There are plenty of noobs out there for the decker to have lots of fun with.
Gangers, Mafia goons, Fanatics, security guards, standard security drones...

And even if there isn't, there is always the driver of a speeding delivery truck, or a office cleaning drone, or some thing else the decker can do to tilt the odds.

The thing is to set the level of expectation for the team decker.
If they are pros expecting to party and running military grade matrix security then there is not a lot the decker can do directly to them.

[cndblank]

Most cyberpunk books put military grade stuff in a whole separate category above what the non military world is using.

There has to be a middle ground between every thing is online and hackable and there being nothing for a decker to do.

For example why would a rigged Helicopter being used for a black op allow anyone hack the flight controls?
My answer would be that the Helicopter was not dedicated to supporting black ops so wasn't setup for military style operations.


I know if I was a Mega Corp, the thought of someone remotely hacking a suborbital and dropping it on top of my HQ would give me nightmares.
If a rigger was jacked in, I'd want a hardware switch to have to be thrown before someone could remotely control the sub orbital. A big red button right between the pilots.

[RHat]

... You know, a weapon being bricked seems like a far preferable form of force depletion than a highly trained individual, especially one in whom you're already reasonably invested in with augments, getting killed.

And playing the pros like that is a pretty horrible thing to do to the decker player - and isn't "the one and only true way" that you want it to be.

[Backgammon]

This is what I was hoping to illustrate. The hacker and the sniper both gave and took hits from the Matrix. They had more fun overall now than in SR4 where you were LESS vulnerable to hacking. Now, mileage may vary based on people, but my point here is to illustrate vulnerability is not a bad thing. It makes things more challenging, more colourful and more fun for the Players. Fun doesn't come from flawlessly plowing down the opposition without a scratch.

[Sendaz]

Or turn it off.

oh sure if you want the EASY way, but I still got 3 crates of these throwbacks to try and unload on some poor sa..... customer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Remnar]

oh sure if you want the EASY way, but I still got 3 crates of these throwbacks to try and unload on some poor sa..... customer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I was hoping to convert a metal shop from SR4 and stamp out M1911's. No wireless, no problem.

[Freya]

This is what I was hoping to illustrate. The hacker and the sniper both gave and took hits from the Matrix. They had more fun overall now than in SR4 where you were LESS vulnerable to hacking. Now, mileage may vary based on people, but my point here is to illustrate vulnerability is not a bad thing. It makes things more challenging, more colourful and more fun for the Players. Fun doesn't come from flawlessly plowing down the opposition without a scratch.

QFT.

[cndblank]

... You know, a weapon being bricked seems like a far preferable form of force depletion than a highly trained individual, especially one in whom you're already reasonably invested in with augments, getting killed.

And playing the pros like that is a pretty horrible thing to do to the decker player - and isn't "the one and only true way" that you want it to be.

Hey as always, your game your call.
I like the new Matrix rules.
I like the new options decker have.
I like deckers period.
I just think they went a little too far.

But you are telling me that a well trained team with military gear and training, who are going in expecting trouble have no way to minimize the risk?

Say a SWAT team is going against a Neo Anarchist terrorist cell. Neo Anarchist have some ace deckers.
I don't see a bunch of ex military SWAT team members risking any exposure.
I certainly wouldn't want to get in a helicopter that some ace neo anarchist decker could hack and crash.
And I doubt their sniper would want to risk not being able to cover his team.

And why would they stop at bricking a weapon?
Why not take out their decker, hack the helicopter and crash the entire squad?
I'd really have to trust someone's ability before I'd literally put my life and the rest of the teams' lives in their hands.
And what if the team deckers is getting double or tripled teamed?
Two or three deckers could likely take out any single decker having to defend a vehicle.
If that happened wouldn't you immediately shutdown the wireless connection for the helicopter?

I'm not being hard on the decker.
I'm telling him that if the opposition is well trained and equipped and expecting you then some times you won't be able to hack them.
That the military takes matrix security very seriously when expecting combat and a shadowrunner doesn't want to mess with the military even in the Matrix because they operate at at a totally different level.

I'm sitting it up so that some times a decker is going to have to be inventive and think outside the box.

[RHat]

SWAT Deckers seem to be a more likely answer than sacrificing the edge that the wireless bonuses could give them. The odds of the neo-@'s having a better decker are about the same as the odds of them being better armed and armoured as well as more skilled. In other words, not bloody likely.

And groups like SWAT teams HAVE to have that kind of trust to be able to operate at all.

And I like the idea of needing to think outside the box, but there's other ways to encourage that. They already have a difficult time with certain less sophisticated enemy types (paracritters, feral ghouls, etc). High-tech enemies should be right in their wheelhouse, if perhaps well defended.

[cndblank]

This is what I was hoping to illustrate. The hacker and the sniper both gave and took hits from the Matrix. They had more fun overall now than in SR4 where you were LESS vulnerable to hacking. Now, mileage may vary based on people, but my point here is to illustrate vulnerability is not a bad thing. It makes things more challenging, more colourful and more fun for the Players. Fun doesn't come from flawlessly plowing down the opposition without a scratch.

I do like the new matrix rules.

So I'd like to know if the sniper is going to take any extra precautions after having had his smartgun bricked?

[Draco18s]

After the game, we're talking and the Face's player says "Mazen Mor... that's your name? I though it said "we want Mazen mort"... as in, literally in a little frenglish moment, "we want mazen dead".

(CN?) Warforged Artificer weilding the necronomicon and wearing the black robe of the archmagi (spellcraft checks to fool your alignment to magic items!) walks into an angel stronghold and says, "Don't worry! We're here to slay good!"
...
"I mean evil!"

[Backgammon]

I do like the new matrix rules.

So I'd like to know if the sniper is going to take any extra precautions after having had his smartgun bricked?

Yes, he agreed to have his stuff slaved to the Decker's deck.

[cndblank]

SWAT Deckers seem to be a more likely answer than sacrificing the edge that the wireless bonuses could give them. The odds of the neo-@'s having a better decker are about the same as the odds of them being better armed and armoured as well as more skilled. In other words, not bloody likely.

And groups like SWAT teams HAVE to have that kind of trust to be able to operate at all.

And I like the idea of needing to think outside the box, but there's other ways to encourage that. They already have a difficult time with certain less sophisticated enemy types (paracritters, feral ghouls, etc). High-tech enemies should be right in their wheelhouse, if perhaps well defended.

On the helicopter, what if a couple of Shadowrunner deckers where hooding and joined their Neo Anarchist buds?
What if there where a couple of Neo Anarchist deckers hidden near by?

I don't care how much better the gear or training of a SWAT decker was, all it takes is for the Neo Anarchist decker to get lucky one time. The SWAT Decker is a single point of failure at least as long as the team is in flight. Take out the decker and you take out the whole team.

All it would take is having A SWAT or HTR helicopter doing a nose dive once or twice and there would be big changes.

Now once they are on the ground, the benefits out weigh the risks. I figure SWAT and the rest would be trained to work both ways. As soon as they realized they were compromised they would go off line and switch to backup comlinks.

[cndblank]

I guess I just want to make the point that if you don't mind the expense and inconvenience (and draconian measures), you can prevent drones, ware, and gear from being hacked. (unless they set it up a head of time via a little sabotage).

Micro thin fiberoptic cable, laser comlinks, not connecting your comlinks to your data jack, Cyberware wireless connections off, using a data jack to plug directly in to your gear and so on. And Jammers. Lot of Jammers.

And a well trained and equipped force expecting trouble would be buttoned up tight and ready with alternates if they lost their matrix support.

If they weren't expecting trouble then there would be lots of opportunities for hacking.
Too inconvenient to not use wireless.

Now we want to talk site security?
Only the most secure corporate research facilities would be matrix secure.

Security is only as good as your users buy in. People trying to live and work would be too hampered by really strict Matrix security for there not to be holes for runners to find. Unless the users are totally behind the security measures there will either be a little slack for the regular users some where or they will find ways to circumvent the security.

Now a Mitsuhama Zero Zone?
I'd say they would have a lot of buy in from their people.
Once again a place a decker will need to really think outside the box.

[cndblank]

Yes, he agreed to have his stuff slaved to the Decker's deck.

So ask the team what their SOP will be if the team decker is dumped or incapacitated?

Unless they have a biomonitor on him or are moving together, will they even know?

[RHat]

On the helicopter, what if a couple of Shadowrunner deckers where hooding and joined their Neo Anarchist buds?
What if there where a couple of Neo Anarchist deckers hidden near by?

I don't care how much better the gear or training of a SWAT decker was, all it takes is for the Neo Anarchist decker to get lucky one time. The SWAT Decker is a single point of failure at least as long as the team is in flight. Take out the decker and you take out the whole team.

All it would take is having A SWAT or HTR helicopter doing a nose dive once or twice and there would be big changes.

Now once they are on the ground, the benefits out weigh the risks. I figure SWAT and the rest would be trained to work both ways. As soon as they realized they were compromised they would go off line and switch to backup comlinks.

Here's the trick: That Neo-@ hacker doesn't get to just keep making rolls until he succeeds. Every time he fails, he's getting marked or eating unresisted Matrix damage. You'd have to be a pretty ballsy decker, or a seriously skilled one, just to try. And with limits in play, he's doubly relying on his being lucky and the other guy being unlucky at the same time. Really, it all depends on what the benefits of running the helicopter wirelessly even are... Remote operation is about all I can think of.

[DireRadiant]

High end teams (not runners) will have their devices slaved to a Host over a WAN. They will perform better with Wireless enabled, and have excellent defenses.

A squad of Red Samurai will be defending in the Matrix with the Renraku Host attributes.