Shadowrun returns, The good and the bad. Options

[FuelDrop]

Ok, let us discuss Shadowrun returns.

I want to start by being clear: I love this game.
It has an excellent progression system, staggering playable due to fantastic combat, and the constant incentive of getting just a little bit more cash or Karma. On top of that there's a level editor and a great soundtrack.

However, this game is not without its flaws. Here are a couple that I felt hurt it the most.
1) Too linear. A lack of dynamic side-quests and a general feeling that none of your choices have that much of a difference on the outcome (That said, this is shadowrun so the choices of runners not effecting the outcome of larger games is pretty much par for the course).
2) Not enough social aspects. Since there's no voice acting and there's already a dialogue tree system, this one is really baffling. The ability to go and just chat to people seems like a bit of a minor thing, but for those of us who really want to get into the whole Roleplaying side of the RPG it felt very limited.
3) Saves. Been done to death already.
4) Static environments. I do feel that the option of more interaction with the world around you would have been nice.

anyone got anything to add?

[Stahlseele]

5.)
NO SNEAKING WHAT SO EVER!
------------------------------------
6.)
The UI is clunky at best. buggy at worst.
7.)
Cyber is useless, aside from the Datajack and that one is only worth it for Deckers/Riggers.

[Erik Baird]

Too short! By the time the character can afford the good stuff, the game's practically over.

NPC runners are useless if you need them for something other than shooting or using a backpack item. A street sam should be able to shove stuff out of the way, deckers should be able to hack a database, etc. As is, the PC has to do all that and can't hand it off to a better-suited NPC.

[Erik Baird]

Cyberware takes up too much essence. I looked at replacing a set of basic cybereyes on one character, and the upgrade would have taken an additional 0.5 essence beyond the 1.0 essence used by the basic version. Which of course means you have to wait until the end of the game to get anything.

[Seerow]

Agreed with too short, and gear progression paths being too narrow/limited.

I'd also like to see better balance among the different archtypes, but since this is a single player game, I can understand why balance really wasn't a priority as long as everyone could contribute.

Would have enjoyed more dialogue and random side missions. I was really surprised when I hit the ending. While the story was good, it felt like end came too early. Just 4-5 hours worth of meaningless random runs scattered in (or better, something like 10 random runs, of which you get enough downtime between story missions to complete 4-5 of. Which ones you complete affect the story) would have been amazing.

Actually now I'm curious if something like that is possible with the editor.

[Stahlseele]

it probably is . .
as is right now, i am simply astonished that things like freaking Fallout 1 are not possible to be re-created in todays world it seems . .

[Erik Baird]

I've read some discussion of random runs and persistent maps on other forums (Steam and shadowrun.com); it seems the engine really wasn't made to handle that. I was really hoping SRR would be akin to the old Sega game crossed with Baldur's Gate or Fallout. As is, it plays more like the new X-Com.

[Stahlseele]

Rumors have it that the Berlin Campaign is supposedly closer to the Sega Game, while the Seattle Campaign was more akin to the SNES Game.

[Erik Baird]

I saw that. I hope it's true.

[Remnar]

Liked most of the game. My gripes are pretty much what was listed above. Mostly that there weren't enough side runs to go on, there wasn't a sneaky way to do.. anything, and not enough decking.

I'd have also liked to see more/better cyber, and weapons to be balanced to each other instead of obvious upgrades (why is a Manhunter better than a Predator? who knows!).

I imagine most of my issues will be covered by UGC, but I'm really, really, really hoping the Berlin DLC is more like the Genesis version. I want my random Decking runs for cash, dag-nabbit!

[Bull]

it probably is . .
as is right now, i am simply astonished that things like freaking Fallout 1 are not possible to be re-created in todays world it seems . .

I did a bit of research. Fallout 1 supposedly had a budget of about $3 Million in 1997 Dollars. I have no idea how that translates into 2013 Dollars, but the US dollar is much weaker and inflation has risen quite a bit. Minimum wage in the US isn't keeping pace with where it should, and it's risen on average about 50% since 2997 (from a bit over $5/hr to $7.50-8.00). So we'll go with that and say equiv to $4.5 million. Interplay was also a well established game developer who had done several good sized PC titles by that point. By comparison, Harebrained Schemes has only had 2 games to it's name, both very small games designed for portable devices.

Shadowrun Returns likely had a budget of less than $1 Million, once you subtract Amazon, Kickstarter, and Paypal fees, pay for licensing to Microsoft, Steam, and whatever else you need to license from, and pay for the thousands of custom USB dogtags, Hardback anthologies, and T-shirts. plus shipping. And shipping these days in the US is a BITCH (It cost me $25 to send a a copy of the Origins SR5 to Rat/Winterhawk).

And... We only have half the game so far.

That's why.

[Voran]

If anything, it also provides us with a working platform to create our own things. Well...for the community builders to do such. Its like someone giving you the Neverwinter platform, or somesuch, the dev tools for it and tell you, "Hey, our original campaign was more an idea of what you guys can do with this"

Bonus, the community will develop its own stuff, and the devs can use that stuff as ideas for what else their platform can do. Win-Win.

[Voran]

In specific to the OP tho. I would have liked to create my own team, or have more of a connection to them. Hooker-turned-Samurai was ok from a character story point, as was the "Where did she go" Shaman Girl, but you never got to build them. Likewise there was no real point to having faces or narrative blurbs on the NPC runners for hire, cause they lacked enough connection for me to care. You basically look at them and go "Kay, what weapon are they carrying, kay what skill do they have". Then you go, "Oh hey, its a meta" or "Oh hey its a male/female". I would have been perfectly fine if they just recycled the matrix program avatar npcs for my hired runners, I cared about them the same way...basically I didn't.

Character creation was a little lighter than I had hoped, but I can imagine ways to change it fairly easily.

Not a fan of the limited access to weapons/cyber/etc at the beginning. I understand why, but I didn't like it.

[Whipstitch]

Pretty sure she was actually just a bartender and muscle-for-hire.

[Vegetaman]

Just beat the game for the first time tonight and enjoyed it. I wish it wasn't quite so linear, but in terms of sucking you in to the narrative and the source material, holy cow did they ever nail that one down. Am hoping for some solid user content; so if anybody knows of any to try out let me know (waiting for the SNES alpha to get further along currently).

[FuelDrop]

A new game plus option would also have been nice...

[Bull]

A new game plus option would also have been nice...

Someone on RPGnet downloaded a NG+ mod off Steam, but it was gone a couple hours later. It let you start up the main game by importing a character, supposedly. And there's another mod that lets you start up a brand new character and properly equip it (So, for example, you're not playing a mage for the first couple missions with no goddamn spells. that did irritate me).

And yes, there are things I'd like to see done differently. I would LOVE to be able to equip the runners I hire. I'd like to be able to build and advance my own team. I wish Wired Reflexes just gave you another AP, instead of that wonky dodge mechanic.

And dammit, why is there no Panther Assault Cannon in this game?? Bull misses his big dakka.

Bull

[phlapjack77]

I would LOVE to be able to equip the runners I hire.

I haven't actually tried it yet, but I THINK you can. After you hire runners, can't you go to your stash and add items from your stash to their inventory? You probably lose the item once the runner leaves your team, but at least you could have the dwarf combat decker in some armor instead of that silly hat.

I have most/all of the gripes that have been listed already. I can't get the thought out of my head while I play, that games like Fallout 1 and Baldur's Gate did this more than 10 years ago, and did it better. Yes I know those games had more money / more experienced teams or whatever, but still...

This would've rocked as a tablet game that I could take with me on the bus or the subway or something "on the go".

[Hagga]

I understand that they altered the story to fit a video game, but the change in how spirits really worked sort of.. bugged me (heehee). And, you know, notLofwyr not eating Harlequin on sight.

I could see Harlequin deciding to run along and pretend to be a normal mage for the UB trip as some sort of bizarre joke, though.

[Erik Baird]

Hired runners can be given medkits, drugs, and grenades, but the game won't let you change their armor out. I tried that with Coyote on one of the missions. I never bothered trying to swap out weapons, but I don't recall seeing any in the equipment list prior to a run. And yes, medkits given to a hireling does disappear after the run.

[phlapjack77]

Hired runners can be given medkits, drugs, and grenades, but the game won't let you change their armor out. I tried that with Coyote on one of the missions. I never bothered trying to swap out weapons, but I don't recall seeing any in the equipment list prior to a run. And yes, medkits given to a hireling does disappear after the run.

Ah, that's what I did, thanks! I had given a grenade to a hired runner, then thought "I should buy an extra armor to give them next time". Thanks for saving me the nuyen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Bull]

Hired runners can be given medkits, drugs, and grenades, but the game won't let you change their armor out. I tried that with Coyote on one of the missions. I never bothered trying to swap out weapons, but I don't recall seeing any in the equipment list prior to a run. And yes, medkits given to a hireling does disappear after the run.

yeah, you can't change out armor or their weapons. they can basically act as extra storage slots, but as noted, be sure to use the items they're holding.

(By the same token, anything tehy come with by default replenishes between runs, so if you hire them again, they restock their grenades and medkits.)

[Isath]

A tutorial would have been nice. The stash thing had me a bit puzzled, and it might be good to not be able to store things in the stash, before you can get them out again. I had to run naked for a mission because of that system.

That paired with the stuff allready noted (like saves or useless teamoptions etc.), makes this game into a nice, but not well developed try.

[Erik Baird]

I'd settle for a proper manual. I was able to figure the UI out without too much trouble, but there were some things that had me puzzled for a bit.

[taeksosin]

The rewind feature for the saves was nice at least. So, if you completed a run and didn't like how things turned out/how you spent your nuyen, you could undo it with a bit of extra gameplay.

I'm going to start looking at the mission maker/devkit dealie to see if I can figure out how to have the game let you form/maintain your own runner team. We'll see what happens.