Shadowrun returns, The good and the bad. Options

[Mach_Ten]

as mentioned above, not being able to kit out the team before a mission
i.e. Johnny Cleaner for one example

Drones and using air ducts was buggy as hell and pretty useless, although drones in general were fun, if completely useless at hitting stuff.

CyberWare essence, swapping out for better gear (or straight removing items) is something needed,
the essence cost calculator built in doesn't let you upgrade, doesn't factor in the replacement etc.

liked the way ettiquette was played, with specialties etc. for getting bonus pay for paydata to wassisface? but it was hardly used in conversations.

I felt that if you weren't a Decker that you missed out on 70% of the extra stuff, so my SAM ended up taking a metric butt-tonne of decker skills.
Maybe a bit more consideration for how to get around secret doors and computers, although there are "some" good examples

Love Love Love Matrix combat ! it was well done and didn't intrude in the whole Meat combat thing either ... /clap

[phlapjack77]

Love Love Love Matrix combat ! it was well done and didn't intrude in the whole Meat combat thing either ... /clap

Yeah, this is the biggest "bright spot" for me. I also like how it runs simultaneous to meat-world combat, gave me a feeling of "gotta hurry up and find the paydata!"

Next character will be a decker/face

[Vegetaman]

Yes, this game definitely feels immediately worthy of a replay with a decker, just for a different flavor.

[Draco18s]

Drones and using air ducts was buggy as hell and pretty useless, although drones in general were fun, if completely useless at hitting stuff.

My drone has more kills than my character.

[Aberrant]

Pretty much any and all complaints about gameplay aside, I was beyond satisfied when, at the end of the game, I was given an option to plant McClusky on his ass.

Also? The game dripped flavor. The Seamstress' Union was hella cool.

[Bigity]

Too short! By the time the character can afford the good stuff, the game's practically over.

NPC runners are useless if you need them for something other than shooting or using a backpack item. A street sam should be able to shove stuff out of the way, deckers should be able to hack a database, etc. As is, the PC has to do all that and can't hand it off to a better-suited NPC.

My NPC decker could hack. Granted, they've said decking was a later edition and it wasn't integrated thoroughly in the campaign - but the ability to use a NPC to deck is there. It's just limited.

EDIT: You know, I bet you are talking about the scripted dialogue options rather than 'actual decking'. Like when if you have Decking skill X, you can choose option Y from the choices?

[Mach_Ten]

My NPC decker could hack. Granted, they've said decking was a later edition and it wasn't integrated thoroughly in the campaign - but the ability to use a NPC to deck is there. It's just limited.

EDIT: You know, I bet you are talking about the scripted dialogue options rather than 'actual decking'. Like when if you have Decking skill X, you can choose option Y from the choices?

no, I don't think he is.

I took Dodger into the matrix run where you need to provide backup while getting the corp info and the elevators flood the place with guards.

and HE sucked the almighty ball-sac !

my Sam with Decker skills (mostly rating 5) seriously wiped the floor with his programs and ESPs... maybe I got lucky but I played him through twice before leaving him out to give covering fire and going in "myself"

[Erik Baird]

Actually, I was talking about the dialogue options, but you're right, Dodger wasn't very good.

[Mach_Ten]

Actually, I was talking about the dialogue options, but you're right, Dodger wasn't very good.

apologies for putting words in your mouth,

Also for hacking terminals

instead of just [DECKING 5] - You can't select this option in the database

I wanted to be able to dive into the matrix at Decking 4 and battle it out, even if it was more difficult, and probably going to DumpShock me, I still wanna TRY ¬! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[MADness]

I would lily to see the [Decking X] option of some of the outer skills. Ranged combat or pistol as a substitute for an intimidation etiquette situation. Almost every skill could work. Biotech needed some non-combat use period.

[Vegetaman]

I wound up with an elf street samurai with a BOD of 8 (with +1 from Dermal Armor) and 9 QCK (with +2 from two cyber legs) and 9 PISTOLS. It was fun (weapon upgrade path was something like: Fichetti Light Security 500a -> Ares Predator -> Colt Manhunter). The free reload and triple target in 1 AP are pretty awesome skills. Always had a runner with a shotgun for kneecap (there is a broken skill ripe for abuse, lol). Debating on if I make another character if I pick rifles or shotguns, as they seem to have potential for even more serious damage... But I also want to play a decker too...

[Mäx]

Cyberware takes up too much essence. I looked at replacing a set of basic cybereyes on one character, and the upgrade would have taken an additional 0.5 essence beyond the 1.0 essence used by the basic version.

I'm pretty sure when i tried that that the game showed that after installing it i would have 0,5 more essence left.
Atleast thats what happened after i upgraded, but in general the ware pieces cost ridiculous amount of essence.

And yeah the shotguns have quite nice damage potential, on the assault to Telestrian offices, i had to sams with shotguns on overwatch toward the door cops where coming in and it was just hilarious to see them walk to the door way and drop dead one after another, didn't matter if they where Trolls or not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Bigity]

The -AP walls that shamans can make are pretty good there too.

[Epicedion]

I would definitely love to see a slightly better variety of cyberware and weapon and spell options. Obviously smartlinked and silenced ingram smartguns exist (because NPCs can have them) but I'll be damned if you can ever seem to find one in the gun shop. Also some fun spells like Invisibility or Control Actions would be fun. Or hey, Detect Enemies or Clairvoyance to help spot guys around corners.

[Adarael]

I know I've been away from Dumpshock for a while, but I wanted to drop back in to talk about Shadowrun Returns. I've been cracking away at the editor and poking at some of the raw data files in an effort to figure out just how much is moddable (or EASILY moddable, I should say) and what kinda stuff I'll need to wait on. Wanted to chip in my two cents.

However, this game is not without its flaws. Here are a couple that I felt hurt it the most.
1) Too linear. A lack of dynamic side-quests and a general feeling that none of your choices have that much of a difference on the outcome (That said, this is shadowrun so the choices of runners not effecting the outcome of larger games is pretty much par for the course).
2) Not enough social aspects. Since there's no voice acting and there's already a dialogue tree system, this one is really baffling. The ability to go and just chat to people seems like a bit of a minor thing, but for those of us who really want to get into the whole Roleplaying side of the RPG it felt very limited.
3) Saves. Been done to death already.
4) Static environments. I do feel that the option of more interaction with the world around you would have been nice.

With the exception of #3, this is entirely on the campaign created by Harebrained Schemes. The engine and editor absolutely support a lot more social dickery than they used, and you can do a hell of a lot with branching dialogue trees & triggers. The problem is that they just *chose not* to make the most of their systems, probably because they were pressed for time.

5.)
NO SNEAKING WHAT SO EVER!
------------------------------------
6.)
The UI is clunky at best. buggy at worst.
7.)
Cyber is useless, aside from the Datajack and that one is only worth it for Deckers/Riggers.

I dunno if I'd call cyberware useless. Stat bonuses are pretty nice in general, but yeah - they're not as good as they COULD be, and certainly aren't must-buy. However, it IS possible to mod Cyberware and gear, so in the future, I expect it to get a bump.
As for sneaking, there is SOME measure of sneaking, but it's solely auditory. If they have a LOS cone on you, they see you. Sad, but that's how it goes.

Drones and using air ducts was buggy as hell and pretty useless, although drones in general were fun, if completely useless at hitting stuff.

Another case of missed opportunities with level design, unfortunately. They COULD have done a lot of neat things with the rigger-only paths, but chose not to. Boo.

[RHat]

I dunno if I'd call cyberware useless. Stat bonuses are pretty nice in general, but yeah - they're not as good as they COULD be, and certainly aren't must-buy. However, it IS possible to mod Cyberware and gear, so in the future, I expect it to get a bump.

You know... If you can somehow manage to mod in wireless, a 2070's campaign should be quite doable... Could even get ambitious and do things like a season of Missions, or the Artifacts series.

[Stahlseele]

Cyberware LITERALLY doesn't do much of what you expect it to do . .
Somebody already cracked open some files of the game and dismantled them.
Turns out many things use base attribute not current attribute.
Base is your natural and current is your modified attribute here.

[RHat]

Cyberware LITERALLY doesn't do much of what you expect it to do . .
Somebody already cracked open some files of the game and dismantled them.
Turns out many things use base attribute not current attribute.
Base is your natural and current is your modified attribute here.

... Well, what the fuck.

[Stahlseele]

... Well, what the fuck.

and it seems as if the essence system is borked as well.
if you end an operation with x.5 essence, it rounds down to the next full point appearantly.

i had one really big complaint too, in addition to the no sneaking stuff . .
but i literally forgot about it as soon as i wrote about the sneaky bit <.<

[Remnar]

Yeah, lacking the sneaky bit does definately suck. I was thinking in terms of the editor that if you were ambitious you could work in triggers based on legwork (if you programed the ability to do such things, or even just skill checks) to simulate some of the sneaky bits (such as getting the decker to the console, where he can hack the cameras, etc) and kinda sorta make a sneaky shadowrun. Maybe doing something beforehand will trigger bad guys to not be in certain locations if you do the right trigger.

I'll have to really sit down and figure out the editor to see if its all feasable, but I think it can be done with my basic understanding of the trigger system. Zoning in guys to the right area may take some doing though, I'm ont sure.

[Falconer]

I stick mostly to the engine with my observations... leave the campaign for after I've finished it.

The engine:
Overall solid. It works well, it seems many folks are having good luck with the mission editor as well.

I don't find the save system an issue at all. Anytime anywhere means needing to track every and any environmental variable which tends to lead to large save files. I can think of ways to save anytime, but this gets markedly complicated once you add the level editor.

The difficulties inherent in revisiting an old area are far more significant I'd say. Given what I've been hearing from some of the modders.

Overall, the specialization unlocks features is a nice touch. Overall the skill system seems to work pretty well. Though it seems a little shallow for extended play.

AI, so far the AI has been reasonably good. I haven't seen it do any completely stupid things... except for to waste a bit of time here and there. Then again I'm playing on normal... so don't know how 'cutthroat' the AI gets as the level goes up or if they simply scale up incoming damage (which would not be a good way to do difficulty).


Dislikes:
No 'interaction' hotkey... you can't press shift and have 'interactable objects' highlighted on screen. This was one of the nicer features in neverwinter. For example... noticing summoning locations has been a huge hassle so far.

The lack of documation even in game is a huge problem! What exactly does a smartgun do? Are spells silenced? You mean there's no difference between packing a pistol and an assault rifle in terms of concealability!

No ammo tracking system. Even if it was merely a matter of tracking generic 'mags/clips'. This is a huge disappointment!

It took a while til I figured out what losing essence does to magic.

The essence system is completely screwed up... if you install a 0.5 essence item you lose a full point of essence despite the loss being tracked in 0.5 points at install time! Lesson if you want a datajack on your mage... get the datajack and alpha cybereyes at the same time! Then you end up with 5 essence instead of 4 for two 0.5essence installs. There is no excuse whatsoever for this.

LOS tracing and cover. Many items which seemingly should give cover (such as a pile of crates) don't. I understand this is using the xcom system... but the xcom system seemed to do a much better job with it.

Feature wish list.
A 3rd dimension would have been nice, but understandable. Yes it gives the finger to the melee types who might not be able to reach that guy on the catwalk... but in a game like this everyone should have some modest ranged capability.

More than 2 lines of description text... does X.. but not enough room to view the entire sentence to know what you're buying! Really space was at that much of a premium in the interface they couldn't make larger item boxes with the scrolling buy menus?!

[FuelDrop]

Found at least one place where you can sneak. In the mission to save coyote you can take the hidden passage to the top floor and sneak past the guard, appease the hellhounds and take out the torturer without getting everyone's attention.

[Draco18s]

Found at least one place where you can sneak. In the mission to save coyote you can take the hidden passage to the top floor and sneak past the guard, appease the hellhounds and take out the torturer without getting everyone's attention.

I found that route, ended up not using it because I hacked the elevator because decker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Ironically the same starting config gives you the drone...which is what allows that other route...

[FuelDrop]

I found that route, ended up not using it because I hacked the elevator because decker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Ironically the same starting config gives you the drone...which is what allows that other route...

Charisma 4 also does the job.

[Draco18s]

Charisma 4 also does the job.

Ahh, of course.