Five editions and we still don't know what a magazine is? Options

[eidolon]

I'm not even a resident firearms nut, but for fuck's sake, how have we come five editions and we're calling magazines "clips." It's not nitpicking. It's not splitting hairs. One term is correct. The other is not.

It's a simple Find & Replace, guys. Just because it has been wrong for so long is not a good reason for it to continue to be wrong.

[Lionhearted]

Maybe by the year 20xx the vocabulary has diluted to the point that they're one and the same! *smirks*

[craftomega]

Don't mix jargon with general language; clip and magazine are synonymous in English sorry if that bothers you.

[DrZaius]

I'm not even a resident firearms nut, but for fuck's sake, how have we come five editions and we're calling magazines "clips." It's not nitpicking. It's not splitting hairs. One term is correct. The other is not.

It's a simple Find & Replace, guys. Just because it has been wrong for so long is not a good reason for it to continue to be wrong.

"Spare clip: A spare clip comes unloaded but can hold the maximum rounds for the weapon. Each clip is specific to the weapon you buy it for, but they all cost the same. And yes, it’s technically a detachable box magazine, but the Cityspeak word for it is so popular these days that even the catalogs call them clips."

Emphasis mine. Sorry chummer; they know it's wrong, they don't care- 2075 street lingo trumps your pedanticism.

[X-Kalibur]

"Spare clip: A spare clip comes unloaded but can hold the maximum rounds for the weapon. Each clip is specific to the weapon you buy it for, but they all cost the same. And yes, it’s technically a detachable box magazine, but the Cityspeak word for it is so popular these days that even the catalogs call them clips."

Emphasis mine. Sorry chummer; they know it's wrong, they don't care- 2075 street lingo trumps your pedanticism.

He beat me to it. I also had a good little chuckle with the last line in the book too. A proper tip of the hat, so to speak.

[Flaser]

I'm not even a resident firearms nut, but for fuck's sake, how have we come five editions and we're calling magazines "clips." It's not nitpicking. It's not splitting hairs. One term is correct. The other is not.

It's a simple Find & Replace, guys. Just because it has been wrong for so long is not a good reason for it to continue to be wrong.

The average gamer doesn't give a damn. The devs are on our (gun nuts) side, there is even a snide remark in the book about how it's wrong to call 'em clips; I assume they kept it 'cause to the average gamer "clip" makes sense.... if you wanna blame something, blame mainstream media that has spread the wrong terminology, from games through movies to books.

[Wakshaani]

As a nod to this, there's a Mount Magazine in Arkansas that was renamed Mount Clips. Chalk it up to Ares Multimedia ... they've got some *great* marketing tricks. Until Horizon came around, only Aztechnology and MCT could rival Ares for advertising.

[Mäx]

It's a very simple case of general use trumping specifig and really anyone other then most obtuse gun nut knows what is ment whit the word clip.

Ofcource it would be nice if the writers remembered that c is detachable box magazine not m witch is internal magazine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[FuelDrop]

On a completely unrelated topic: Is there a magazine related to shadowrun published by catalyst or at least given their seal of approval?

Cos let's face it, that would be fantastic. even if it's just a quarterly thing with new guns, new armour, new vehicles, short stories, adept powers, spells, gaming advice... I'd buy it. So would you. come on, admit it. It'd be a great way of publishing all the guns from gun haven 1/2 for 5th edition.

[Umidori]

So you want to be able to read "FASA Power"?

~Umi

[Sendaz]

I do not know of any canon/CGL approved magazine or e-zine, but it could be out there.

I do miss the Mags like Ka*Ge and Shadowland.

[WorkOver]

Don't mix jargon with general language; clip and magazine are synonymous in English sorry if that bothers you.

No there are not.

[RHat]

No there are not.

In jargon no, but in general modern English they are. The dichotomy is even noted by the core book.

[Umidori]

No they are not.

Sure they are, just like "begging the question" means something evokes or leads into a question.

Usage is king. English is as pure as a cribhouse whore.

~Umi

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Sure they are, just like "begging the question" means something evokes or leads into a question.

Usage is king. English is as pure as a cribhouse whore.

~Umi

Especially since English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

This is like bitching about a BBQ not being grilling up hot dogs on the 4th of july because a BBQ is a indirect cooking method. Sorry but the English and I assume most other languages evolve, its been clip since before lethal weapon 1.

[Neurosis]

I initially thought this thread was about like, the kind of magazines you read. And it wasn't, but then in a strange self-fulfilling prophecy, it was.

"Spare clip: A spare clip comes unloaded but can hold the maximum rounds for the weapon. Each clip is specific to the weapon you buy it for, but they all cost the same. And yes, it’s technically a detachable box magazine, but the Cityspeak word for it is so popular these days that even the catalogs call them clips."

I wrote this line, and the initial draft was probably less polite than what made into the final book. Something like "And yes, it's technically a detachable box magazine, but shut the fuck up." was what I originally wrote for the game text, IIRC. Possibly it was "...but nobody gives a fuck".

*checks*

Ah, here it is.

And yes, it's technically a detachable box magazine, but only an out-of-touch drekhead would actually call it that these days.

Jason Hardy went and politened (neologism, son) it up as is his wont.

Also from the same draft, in the terminology sidebar, and this may have made it into final (can't be arsed to check atm, I ostensibly should be working and have spent way too much time on this silly post)...

Ammo: Refers to the amount of ammunition a ranged weapon can hold, followed by the method of reloading in parentheses: (b) means break action, © means detachable external box magazine, or "clip" in modern street parlance, (d) means drum, (ml) means muzzle-loader, (m) means internal magazine, (cy) means cylinder, and (belt) means belt-fed.

***

In summation, Craftomega, RHat, Shinobi Killfist and Umidori are all 100% correct here. In actual Modern English, clip actually means "a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm". Like, that is from an ACTUAL DICTIONARY. This is a bandaids/bandages thing, evolving language.

Technically speaking, "mags" would be both more technically correct while being believably brief and functional street slang, but it would fly in the face of four editions of Shadowrun slang and functionally constitute a micro-retcon in and of itself. I'm a bigger gun nerd than anybody, and not even I care about proper jargon that much.

Even people who are around and handle firearms all the time, even professionally, refer to "detachable box magazines" as clips not infrequently. Someone who has actually for real shot more actual human beings than I care to think about has said "toss me a fresh clip" or whatever, even if that is not precisely accurate. Not everyone cares about using the precisely correct jargon all that much.

[Shortstraw]

I wrote this line...

If you wrote about the guns and ammo does this mean it is your fault I have no elephant rifle?

[Critias]

If you wrote about the guns and ammo does this mean it is your fault I have no elephant rifle?

Sorry, rifles big enough to fire elephants are just going to have to wait until a splat book, buddy.

[Umidori]

Pfft. Only unoriginal powergaming munchkins would want a rifle that big.

*much grumbling and gnashing of teeth* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

~Umi

[WorkOver]

Sure they are, just like "begging the question" means something evokes or leads into a question.

Usage is king. English is as pure as a cribhouse whore.

~Umi

You caught that sarcasm? LOL!! I am glad someone did!!

[Umidori]

I'm afraid I didn't catch any sarcasm, and even now, knowing to look for some, I can't manage to find any. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

My post was in complete earnesty, and I assumed yours was as well.

~Umi

[Sendaz]

Sorry, rifles big enough to fire elephants are just going to have to wait until a splat book, buddy.

I did hear something about the New Panther Cannon II firing heavily cybered cougars/panthers/leopards is currently being field tested in the CAS.

Takes a troll to wield it, and its SS only requiring a reload each time (the cats don't want to stay in a magazine very well), but for sheer fun it looks to be the perfect Xmas gift this season.

[Umidori]

...

Sendaz, you brilliant, beautiful fool! You've gone and inspired me to recreate... The "Chuck-Shot".

And the disturbing thing is, I already know exactly how to, and it's completely RAW legal.

~Umi

[Sendaz]

...

Sendaz, you brilliant, beautiful fool!

Oh stop.... actually no.. go on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You've gone and inspired me to recreate... The "Chuck-Shot".

And the disturbing thing is, I already know exactly how to, and it's completely RAW legal.

~Umi

Well if you need some field testing for it, send over a prototype (or I can just have a team slip over and pick it up themselves after midnight (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )