SR5 Missions "Hot Patch" Errata Options

[Patrick Goodman]

Since not everyone makes it into the Missions forum.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=39470

[Draco18s]

Fancy

[HugeC]

"Background Counts impose a negative Dice Pool penalty equal to their rating for all tests that are linked to or utilize magic in any way (i.e., spellcasting, summoning, assensing, any test made while astrally projecting, and any active skill that benefits from active adept powers such as killing hands, critical strike, great leap, or improved skills, etc)."

Samurai just got a lot shinier compared to adepts.

[Mäx]

How does that even make any sense what so ever.

[Makki]

"Background Countsose a negative Dice Pool penalty equal to their rating for all tests that are linked to or utilize magic in any way (i.e., spellcasting, summoning, assensing, any test made while astrally projecting, and any active skill that benefits from active adept powers such as killing hands, critical strike, great leap, or improved skills, etc)."

Samurai just got a lot shinier compared to adepts.

Hopefully this penalty increases with an upcoming magic book. The magic Reduction from 4th was way worse than this is.

[Draco18s]

How does that even make any sense what so ever.

You have 4 skill points. You have MAGIC POWERS that increase that by 4. You standing in a 2-point mana dead zone, your MAGIC POWERS aren't as strong now, young padawan, causing a two-die penalty.

[Sendaz]

Good time to invest in that metamagic cleansing and Filtering. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Mäx]

You have 4 skill points. You have MAGIC POWERS that increase that by 4. You standing in a 2-point mana dead zone, your MAGIC POWERS aren't as strong now, young padawan, causing a two-die penalty.

No i just have 12 dice for unarmed and killing hands, if i'm in 2 points background count my dice pool drops to 10.
That makes zero sense.
Or my face adept has Improved potential(social), on background count her social dicepools drop by the rating of the count, but the limit is un affected (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

[Draco18s]

No i just have 12 dice for unarmed and killing hands, if i'm in 2 points background count my dice pool drops to 10.

This makes perfect sense. In a magically unstable/drained area you are using MAGIC POWERS to BE BETTER, thus you TAKE PENALTIES.

Your other option is to disable Killing Hands.

Or my face adept has Improved potential(social), on background count her social dicepools drop by the rating of the count, but the limit is un affected (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

...and?

[Mäx]

Your really saying that to you it makes perfect sense that the power itself is totally unaffected but instead you take a dicepool penalty for the related skill.
Also most powers are intrinsic, not something you turn on and off.

Also i seriously hope mystic adept errata doesn't stay final, only way to get power points being taking them instead of metamagic is just stupid as heck.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

"Background Counts impose a negative Dice Pool penalty equal to their rating for all tests that are linked to or utilize magic in any way (i.e., spellcasting, summoning, assensing, any test made while astrally projecting, and any active skill that benefits from active adept powers such as killing hands, critical strike, great leap, or improved skills, etc)."

Samurai just got a lot shinier compared to adepts.

So, it no longer subtracts Magic Rating? Which is effectively the same thing, in a lot of cases (at least for the mojo slingers and conjurers). As for ACTIVE Powers of the Adept, just turn them off and you apparently do not suffer the penalty. I actually prefer the power loss, myself (SR4A for the Win... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ), as it makes more sense, but whatever. For Adepts, Power loss or turn them off to ignore the penalty, it is all the same in the end.

[Mäx]

For Adepts, Power loss or turn them off to ignore the penalty, it is all the same in the end.

Can you quote me rule that says that is something that can be done?
Most adept powers are always on.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Also i seriously hope mystic adept errata doesn't stay final, only way to get power points being taking them instead of metamagic is just stupid as heck.

I think it should be handled just like it is in SR4A. When you get a point of Magic, it either adds to your Magician Side, or your Adept Side. Simple and neat. And then when you initiate, you also choose either a Metamagic, or a PP. Again, simple and neat. But then, I also think a Mystic Adept should be forced to split their Magic Rating too, rather than having the best of both worlds. *shrug*

[Elfenlied]

Wow, MAs took it up the arse.

Also, Deckers just got a lot better. The optimal route is now implanting a used Shiawase Cyber-5 for any Resources A Decker.

[The Masked Ferre...]

So, it no longer subtracts Magic Rating? Which is effectively the same thing, in a lot of cases (at least for the mojo slingers and conjurers). As for ACTIVE Powers of the Adept, just turn them off and you apparently do not suffer the penalty. I actually prefer the power loss, myself (SR4A for the Win... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ), as it makes more sense, but whatever. For Adepts, Power loss or turn them off to ignore the penalty, it is all the same in the end.

Unless you are running a hacking adept, at which point you are -2 dicepool for the noise (minimum) and -2 for the Background count (minimum) too all of the related tests. (personal ouch. Hardware (my character name) is going to have such a hard time out there in the Containment Zone).

Or if you have Improved Ability. All of the skills linked to that attribute now have a -2 due to background count while in the containment zone.

[ElFenrir]

Wait, how does something that doesn't affect the die pool in the first place affect the die pool?

Like, an Adept WITHOUT Killing Hands will actually be better than an adept with Killing Hands? I mean losing dice from Improved Ability makes perfect sense, but Killing Hands was a power that does not affect Die Pools at all. There are other powers that don't affect die pools as well(Critical Strike).

I wouldn't worry though, just turn off Killing Hands and use Knucks instead. (You're probably using Knucks anyway). I mean you'll need to let the mage shoot the bug spirits, but just go deal with the stuff that doesn't have Normal Weapon immunity.

Also, it's kinda funny how it can work out in other ways. An Adept with Improved Agility 1 is better off deactivating it than using it(since, say, he'll have Agility 5(6) and Combat Skill of 6+2 Specialized...he'll take a -2 which will bring him one lower than he would have if he de-activated the power, when he'll only lose 1 die.) If he has Improved Agility 2, it's a wash(assuming Background Count 2.) Initiative, what do you lose from that? 2 from your Initiative? A Weapon Adept with Critical Strike: Katana or whatnot would also be probably better off de-activating. They only lose 1 DV but don't take any die pool penalties. In Higher background counts it becomes even more pointless to leave something like Critical Strike on. Why would I take a -4 penalty for +1 damage?

...Count me as someone who sorta prefers the 'Lost Powers' method-this method is sorta weird(it's better to de-activate sometimes than take the penalty, stuff that doesn't affect die pools at all suddenly affects die pools.) There's no real choice involved in this method with some of the powers. At least the other way you could actually make an order of what powers go away. I mean this method-I actually don't think it's worse than the old method. Hell, I actually think it's *easier* than the old method, since if I REALLY need to use the powers, I can activate them and eat a little penalty, where before, Adepts didn't even have that option. Those powers were gone until they left the area.

As for MAs, I'm glad that's the errata. I like them better nowadays. Before they were a bit too gimmicky, IMO.

[Mäx]

Guys, seriously why do you all keep talking about activating and deactivating powers, when most of the powers are always on.

[ElFenrir]

Actually, Killing Hands is an activated power. Killing Hands, Wall Running, Attribute Boost, Adrenaline Boost, Missile Parry and Astral Perception are all activated.

I also admit to sometimes thinking of old rules when the Adept could choose whether or not to have any power 'on' or 'off'...or that's how the table had always played it since '94 or so.

[Draco18s]

Actually, Killing Hands is an activated power. Killing Hands, Wall Running, Attribute Boost, Adrenaline Boost, Missile Parry and Astral Perception are all activated.

Quite. ಠ_ರೃ

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Unless you are running a hacking adept, at which point you are -2 dicepool for the noise (minimum) and -2 for the Background count (minimum) too all of the related tests. (personal ouch. Hardware (my character name) is going to have such a hard time out there in the Containment Zone).

Or if you have Improved Ability. All of the skills linked to that attribute now have a -2 due to background count while in the containment zone.

Only if you assume that you cannot "turn the magic off." Either way, it is generally no different than actually losing the power, as you did in SR4A.

[Epicedion]

I think getting to use all your powers at slightly diminished effectiveness is pretty spiffy compared to losing powers altogether.

[Draco18s]

I think getting to use all your powers at slightly diminished effectiveness is pretty spiffy compared to losing powers altogether.

And different powers every time you exit and re-enter the background count. As in "the power I don't need this time." Which is weird and a book keeping hassle.

[Epicedion]

And different powers every time you exit and re-enter the background count. As in "the power I don't need this time." Which is weird and a book keeping hassle.

Also true.

Interesting point: I don't think Initiative dice are a "dice pool" and thus Improved Reflexes (for Initiative) aren't affected by BGC. You'd still take a penalty to Reaction tests (such as defense) in the BGC, but you'd still be the fastest guy on the magically fuzzy block.

[Draco18s]

Interesting point: I don't think Initiative dice are a "dice pool" and thus Improved Reflexes (for Initiative) aren't affected by BGC. You'd still take a penalty to Reaction tests (such as defense) in the BGC, but you'd still be the fastest guy on the magically fuzzy block.

Will likely be clarified with the official errata.

[Bull]

Initiative will need to be clarified, yes. Right now, no direct penalty. It'll probably translate to a flat penalty (Since dice would be a bit ridiculous in that case, because no, it is not a dice pool).

Powers can be turned on and off. Always have been. Should have been clarified in the new book though. Otherwise Adepts can NEVER go through wards.

And yes, even if the power doesn't give you dice, if the skill you're using benefits from magic, you get penalized, because you are being made physically ill and moving through astral quicksand.

Bull