Do mages have it too easy?, They get new spells awfully quickly... Options

[Talia Invierno]

True. And I should never try to post when rushed. (It's not as though I haven't had that lesson here before ... I seem to be a slow learner.) So fair enough if I concede that point?

But a person with a pistol can always choose their ammunition. Simple action to change the clip to something more or less powerful, something explosive, something armour-piercing, something gel or rubber for stun damage. That would accomplish the same end you suggest - and both changing the clip and firing could occur in the same phase, still allowing that choice of damage within the time required for a single spellcasting.

And I mispriced and misquoted yet again: variable Force spell formulas are always purchased as though they were Deadly Drain (9000 ¥, 9 /7 days). I hope that's correct, now.

[Person 404]

[Adarael]

The balance I've always found between AoE spells and grenades is this:

Grenades generally do much higher damage if you use IPE, and if you're using the MGL 6 or 12, you can lob 2 in one action. 15S max with IPE Offensive. They're more easily resisted by armor and body, plus you can use combat pool to get the hell outa the way.

Spells generally do less damage than grenades, at least numberically - they can be staged up easier, since Joe Average doesn't have as many dice to resist and can't use combat pool in *general* (though AoE manipulations break this rule).. And most importantly, there's no scatter on a spell. It goes off with the center exactly where you put it. But! Spells are a complex action and ensuring you let off an AoE with no drain will use all of your magic pool dice on the first pass.

[TheScamp]

[Kurukami]

How easy is it to notice a mage casting a spell, anyways? I know that there's the geasa which can make it far more obvious, but what about normally?

I ask because of a situation which I may have mentioned earlier in this thread -- where a mage, caught by surprise and covered by numerous guns ready to shoot if he made a false move, still managed to get off a stunball at his assailants before they could shoot.

[TheScamp]

Technically, mages can cast spells without really any obvious signs of the casting itself.

In your example though, I hope the mage kept some Spell Defense aside so he didn't get nailed by his own Stunball. That's just embarrassing.

[Glyph]

[RedmondLarry]

See "Noticing Magic" on page 162 in SR3. Unless you are paying close attention, you're likely to miss the subtle hints that a magician is taking on that intense concentration necessary to cast a difficult spell. But if guards with Delayed Actions are paying close attention it is quite risky to cast a high-force spell.

Standard target number for someone paying attention to the magician is base 4 + caster's magic attribute - Force of Spell. This is a perception test, using situational modifiers and visibility modifiers (top of p. 232). Also apply modifiers from the table "Noticing Spellcasting Modifiers Table" (p. 162). The number of successes determines how well the viewer has identified what's happening (Perception Success Table, bottom of p. 232).

As a GM, I definately run that the concentration necessary to draw magical power together for spellcasting can be noticed before the spell is cast. Those with Delayed Actions and who observe it can take their action prior to the spell being cast. I would run that any guard who suspects the character is a magician is likely to take action on only 1 success (either to duck and hide or to shoot, depending on the corp's policies and the individual guard's inclinations). More successes will make shooting more likely. Different guards may have different numbers of successes. Guards trained in dealing with magicians should have been taught to tell suspects "Close your eyes", "Lay face down on the floor", or "Turn and face away from me with your hands clearly visible!" followed by "You so much as twitch and I'll splatter you all over the wall!"

[TheScamp]

[Sphynx]

Unlikely. Wrist Monitor might call DocWagon, but not a HTR team, especially in a nice secure environment like a Corp where the DocWagon waits outside the perimeter until the Corp ok's their entrance.

Maybe the HTR which response to the PanicButton pushed by the guard before he died, (assuming the decker/rigger did their piss poor job of not deactivating it), but not a WristMonitor.

Sphynx

[Solidcobra]

biomonitor, activate alarm and send team when the monitored guard dies, shouldn't that work? If someone gets "geeked" by a mage and then the silent alarm goes of, the high-sec team of cyberzombies and mages attack, and the poor magician standing there would just waltz away? HOW?

[toturi]

Killing someone and triggering his bio-monitor and such? Yes, I would think that the HRT/SWAT might be scrambled but not so quickly as to be nearly instantaneous. I mean the dead guy must be right next door to the local cop station.

I usually follow the Lone Star/Doc wagon response time given in the source books.

[TheScamp]

[Sphynx]

Sure, if you're hitting a doubleA or TripleA corp. But how often is that? And even then, that's not at all their compounds, only their main areas that hosts enough employment/resources to warrant the pay of an on-standby HTR Team, everyzhere and everyone else depends on the Paid Corp for Security to send out their HTR, such as KE or LS.

Sphynx

[Greyfoxx]

That's not entirely exclusive to mages, though. Any character who kills a guard with biomonitor would likely trigger the same effect. Now i dont see why this has become an issue.

If you can finish the run without alarming anybody, more karma to you! Then again, not all runs involve sneaking around. That's what i think makes SR balanced.

[hobgoblin]

to have a biomonitor call the on call secuirty backup just change the signal to send or whre to send it and so on, its not like some corp cnat afford to have biomonitors that signal not only theyre local medical staff but in the event that the triggerd biomonitor is worn by a on duty security guard it allso calls the barracks...

[Curugul]

Not to bump this thread when all arguments have been played out, but I have one final thing to add:


Do you see threads like: Do sam's have it too easy? Or: Adepts with weapon foci too powerful? Or: Face's unbalancing sr? The fact that there is even a debate lends some credence to the fact that magic has balance problems, even if your specific game has taken care of them.


Curugul

ps. Your my hero Polaris, keep up the good work on the Sust. spell thread

[Cain]

Oh, I see plenty of complaints about certain pieces of gear being unbalancing, and it's only because the rules are so technical that we don't see more riggers out there.

I see no spell that is nearly as unbalancing as a Great Dragon ATGM; there's the running debate about the Viper Slivergun, and if you so much as mention the CED to certain people, their heads will explode. There are plenty of specific pieces of cyber or gear that cause all kinds of problems. And really, you don't seem to have trouble with mages in general; it's in very specific areas where you seem to have issues with them as written.

[Siege]