Under what circumstances are Qi Foci worthwhile? Options

[Samoth]

Qi focus is 2x rating in Karma to bind and 3000Y per rating point. Rating must be 4x the adept power point cost to buy (so, Combat Sense 1 costs .5PP, which would require a Force 2 Qi focus). The max focus available at chargen is level 4, or 1PP of powers (though you can have multiple foci).

I'm not seeing any outstanding reasons to use starting money and karma to get one of these, any opinions?

[SpellBinder]

Unless there's some errata talk I'm not aware of, from page 319: "The Force of the focus must be four times the Power Point cost of the power it holds,"

On the question asked, I've never actually made a starting character with a focus of any kind.

[Samoth]

Sorry, that was a typo on my end.

[Jaid]

Qi focus is 2x rating in Karma to bind and 3000Y per rating point. Rating must be 4x the adept power point cost to buy (so, Combat Sense 1 costs .5PP, which would require a Force 2 Qi focus). The max focus available at chargen is level 4, or 1PP of powers (though you can have multiple foci).

I'm not seeing any outstanding reasons to use starting money and karma to get one of these, any opinions?

well, it's 13 karma to get your first initiation. it's 8 karma and 12,000 nuyen to get a bonus power point from a qi focus. more interestingly, you can have multiples and turn them off and on as you feel necessary, which means you can actually pick up utility powers without feeling like you're missing out on getting your core set of powers.

worth it in chargen? maybe, maybe not. personally, i suspect you probably don't have much better to do with the karma or money in many cases, but that will depend on the specific adept in question.

but it definitely has strong potential to be a worthwhile investment, and it does mean you can customize your powers for specific occasions by turning a focus on or off as needed if you have multiple focuses (and aren't willing to risk focus addiction, that is).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It is potentially useful, to be sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Slide]

Having multiples might be a small issue with the way that the addiction (as I read it) works. That if in the time period of x weeks you use foci adding up to above your magic rating you need to make an addiciton roll. Its a small threshold but still possible to fail.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Having multiples might be a small issue with the way that the addiction (as I read it) works. That if in the time period of x weeks you use foci adding up to above your magic rating you need to make an addiciton roll. Its a small threshold but still possible to fail.

I see that as being Simultaneous Useage.

[Slide]

I see that as being Simultaneous Useage.

Except it's "total Force of all active foci" Not the highest number force used at anyone time.

[Cain]

You can use multiple small qi foci to gain access to lots of different powers. For example, you can have one with Enhanced Accuracy for one skill, another for a different skill, etc. Technically, you can stack the same power, so you can get Increased Reflexes 3 for very cheap. (That last one should be errata'd, however. It's a dirty trick.)

[Sendaz]

Each qi focus is specific to a single adept power at a specific level.

I do not see it saying anywhere that you could stack this, unless you are saying because it does not specifically say you can't but then you are falling under the description of cheesemonkey. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

But I suppose it should be errata'd just to make it clearer.

[Samoth]

Each qi focus is specific to a single adept power at a specific level.

I do not see it saying anywhere that you could stack this, unless you are saying because it does not specifically say you can't but then you are falling under the description of cheesemonkey. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

But I suppose it should be errata'd just to make it clearer.

One of the examples notes you can buy additional levels of a power you know one level of using foci. Example, you have Increased Reflexes 1, you can buy levels 2 and 3 as individual foci to modify that...apparently.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Except it's "total Force of all active foci" Not the highest number force used at anyone time.

Active at one time, not active across the week. Otherwise all mages using foci will be addicted.

[Sendaz]

One of the examples notes you can buy additional levels of a power you know one level of using foci. Example, you have Increased Reflexes 1, you can buy levels 2 and 3 as individual foci to modify that...apparently.

Yes, that's fine, but it sounded like they were implying one could buy multiple level 1's to stack up to a 3.

[Cain]

Yes, that's fine, but it sounded like they were implying one could buy multiple level 1's to stack up to a 3.

No, because Increased reflexes 1 costs 1.5 PP, outside of what a starting Qi Focus can hold. You can buy multiple level 4's, presuming you have Level 1, though it is cheesy and should be fixed.

[Voran]

Makes ya wonder how many IEs and Dwaaaaagons are addicted to their foci.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Focus Addiction, Just another horrible implementation in a sea of horrible implementations.

[Voran]

heh I know, by the rules you'd think more awakened types go all Gollum on a superfrequent basis.

[Sendaz]

You will find what works for PC's doesn't always work the same for NPC's, especially the Named ones.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

You will find what works for PC's doesn't always work the same for NPC's, especially the Named ones.

Goose and Gander... Sadly, it does not always apply. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Slide]

Active at one time, not active across the week. Otherwise all mages using foci will be addicted.

I think that's the point. It throws a soft cap at how many foci you use and how often. If you have a problem with that you are probably letting your awakened use too many foci. As much as everyone seems to think that tech characters got the shaft, I'm surprised people are resistant to ways to reign in magic characters. Besides when looking at how addicted an alcoholic is you look at how much booze he drinks across a long period of time, not just on one binge.

[Voran]

Addiction rules are funny. One would think there should be addiction rules for "Shooting people" and "Blowing shit up."

[Slide]

Addiction rules are funny. One would think there should be addiction rules for "Shooting people" and "Blowing shit up."

That would imply that serial killers and arsonist aren't real in SR.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think that's the point. It throws a soft cap at how many foci you use and how often. If you have a problem with that you are probably letting your awakened use too many foci. As much as everyone seems to think that tech characters got the shaft, I'm surprised people are resistant to ways to reign in magic characters. Besides when looking at how addicted an alcoholic is you look at how much booze he drinks across a long period of time, not just on one binge.

See, it doesn't. If you assume additive rather than simultaneous use, then that mage who gets in 2-3 separate fights in a week will likely be addicted, from his Force 4 Power Focus that he used 3 or 4 times to cast his spells. And that is just crap. And there would never be a reason to have more than a single focus ever, becasue even that one will addict you in short order. Use a Rating 2 Sustaining Focus for your Increased Willpower, just on GP and used every day, will have you exceeding your limit, and you will be addicted. I have no issues with the Mage bopping around with Foci in the Force 12-15 range (total) having to worry about their addiction. But when it is one or two minor Force Sustaining Foci, I have issues with it. After all, you are only allowed to have up to your Logic in Active Foci at a time. Which is already a pretty good limit, in my opinion.

[Slide]

You miss understand what I'm saying. It's the total of all the seperate foci u use. Power is addictive.

[Samoth]

Someone on the other board said that using Attribute Boost level 1 in a level 1 Qi Focus is a pretty good idea, and I'm not sure he's wrong. Assuming 6 magic, 7 die will average 2 hits (assuming TN 5? It doesn't say) which is very efficient power use (oh and you have to resist 1s drain...ouch). Of course, at .25PP per level it's not hard to fit this into your build without paying for a foci anyway.