Grappling & Spellcasting |
Grappling & Spellcasting |
Aug 29 2013, 04:36 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 352 Joined: 10-August 10 From: Madison, WI Member No.: 18,916 |
So I was going over the grapple rules and I can't seem to figure out magicians can still cast spells or conjure while immobilized.
"Otherwise the defender remains subdued and cannot take any actions requiring physical movement." Does casting a spell constitute "physical movement"? |
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Aug 29 2013, 04:49 PM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,351 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance Member No.: 17,653 |
In SR4, yes, provided the spellcaster in question took a Gesture Geas then physical movement is required. Otherwise it does not.
In SR5, no, spellcasting requires no physical movement. Well, no movement except for what might be necessary to touch the target with the appropriate spell. Grappling a magician that knows the Shatter spell is a very risky proposition. |
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Aug 30 2013, 12:41 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 681 Joined: 23-March 10 From: Japan Member No.: 18,343 |
Or any of the elemental aura (SR4) spells... Ouch.
Seems they removed them in SR5, at least until a magic splat book comes out. *fingers crossed* |
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Aug 30 2013, 05:36 AM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,962 Joined: 27-February 13 Member No.: 76,875 |
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Aug 30 2013, 10:29 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 598 Joined: 12-October 05 Member No.: 7,835 |
The Centering metamagic in SR5 needs some activity, and that activity might require your hands to be free. Making arcane gestures, for example.
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Aug 30 2013, 02:31 PM
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#6
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
The Centering metamagic in SR5 needs some activity, and that activity might require your hands to be free. Making arcane gestures, for example. Thought it required some significant action (like in SR4A), though it did not have to be physical. Is that not the case in SR5? I know that in SR4A, your Centering could be something as simple as Casting in Latin, which requires no physical movement whatsoever, but does require your casting to be Verbal. QUOTE (SR4A, Centering Metamagic) Centering techniques include acts such as chanting in Latin, dancing, making arcane gestures, and so on.
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Aug 30 2013, 03:27 PM
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#7
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Skillwire Savant Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 5-April 13 From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ Member No.: 88,139 |
Centering appears to be pretty much the same (I think some of the art is from 2nd or 3rd edition in that section), at least flavor wise. You can chant, although I think that is why Shemhazai said "might" require.
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Aug 30 2013, 03:43 PM
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#8
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Centering appears to be pretty much the same (I think some of the art is from 2nd or 3rd edition in that section), at least flavor wise. You can chant, although I think that is why Shemhazai said "might" require. Ahh, missed that, even though I copied it. Reading with a Glitch, apparently. *sigh* |
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Aug 30 2013, 03:43 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 598 Joined: 12-October 05 Member No.: 7,835 |
Yep. But once it's chosen, I don't think it can be changed. I'd rather be able to get the drain benefit while staying quiet.
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Aug 30 2013, 03:44 PM
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#10
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Skillwire Savant Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 5-April 13 From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ Member No.: 88,139 |
I always liked the guys who tried to take Zen Archery as their Centering skill, trying to combine a Take Aim action/Archery/and Magic thinking no one would be like GTFO.
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Aug 30 2013, 03:46 PM
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#11
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Yep. But once it's chosen, I don't think it can be changed. I'd rather be able to get the drain benefit while staying quiet. You could always take the Metamagic Twice, with different Centering Techniques. Obviously they would not stack benefits, but it would give you some options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Aug 30 2013, 03:47 PM
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#12
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
I always liked the guys who tried to take Zen Archery as their Centering skill, trying to combine a Take Aim action/Archery/and Magic thinking no one would be like GTFO. You can do that (what a waste)... Just do not expect to shoot an arrow AND cast spells at the same time. They are exclusive actions, after all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And they would not stack... Take aim and Shoot your arrow (and get no spell), or Center with your skill (You cannot take aim unfortunately, since aiming with spells is generally not effective) and use your spell (and get no Arrow). It is a waste to have Zen Archery for your Centering. |
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Aug 30 2013, 03:50 PM
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#13
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Skillwire Savant Group: Members Posts: 3,154 Joined: 5-April 13 From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ Member No.: 88,139 |
Right, I'm just laughing about people who tried to rationalize it out for "versimilitude" or "realism"
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Aug 30 2013, 04:15 PM
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#14
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Right, I'm just laughing about people who tried to rationalize it out for "versimilitude" or "realism" Heh... Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I like Kata or Chanting in Latin, depending upon character. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Aug 30 2013, 05:37 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 651 Joined: 20-July 12 From: Arizona Member No.: 53,066 |
Actually my main character's Adept Centering technique was taking a deep breath
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Aug 30 2013, 05:59 PM
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#16
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Actually my main character's Adept Centering technique was taking a deep breath A Centering Breath, so to speak... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Aug 30 2013, 06:12 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 598 Joined: 12-October 05 Member No.: 7,835 |
You could always take the Metamagic Twice, with different Centering Techniques. Obviously they would not stack benefits, but it would give you some options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I never thought of that. You're a genius. |
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Aug 30 2013, 08:37 PM
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#18
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
I never thought of that. You're a genius. One of many ways in which I keep Ares Macrotechnology functioning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Aug 31 2013, 12:27 AM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,401 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
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Aug 31 2013, 02:14 AM
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#20
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
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Aug 31 2013, 02:57 AM
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#21
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
Meh I'm not so sure on being able to case a spell while grappled. While concentration is the only thing required traditions may require chanting and gesturing. Both page 279 perceiving magic and 280 sorcery talk about gestures being part of it. I suspect outside the psychic tradition some level of gestures come with the tradition and can be interrupted by a grapple. I'd put it in the GM call category.
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Aug 31 2013, 06:50 AM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,962 Joined: 27-February 13 Member No.: 76,875 |
Meh I'm not so sure on being able to case a spell while grappled. While concentration is the only thing required traditions may require chanting and gesturing. Both page 279 perceiving magic and 280 sorcery talk about gestures being part of it. I suspect outside the psychic tradition some level of gestures come with the tradition and can be interrupted by a grapple. I'd put it in the GM call category. There are no rules requiring any of that, though - as it stands, all of that is there only as RP and Centering - and accordingly, a player would be well within their rights to be pretty upset with that call, because it has basically no support or precedent. |
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Aug 31 2013, 07:34 AM
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#23
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Runner Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,039 Joined: 23-March 05 From: The heart of Rywfol Emwolb Industries Member No.: 7,216 |
Plus consider are the gestures you are speaking of involuntary or required? It may be a subconscious action to point at someone you are blasting, but the question becomes is it actually required. If not, then grappling probably won't interrupt it.
MetaHumans have tons of little tells, tics and other quirks they do everyday and are often without being aware of it, something any seasoned poker player will use to their advantage, but these do not necessarily mean they are directly connected in the sense that disrupting the tell disrupts the associated action. |
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Aug 31 2013, 02:10 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 598 Joined: 12-October 05 Member No.: 7,835 |
Meh I'm not so sure on being able to case a spell while grappled. While concentration is the only thing required traditions may require chanting and gesturing. Both page 279 perceiving magic and 280 sorcery talk about gestures being part of it. I suspect outside the psychic tradition some level of gestures come with the tradition and can be interrupted by a grapple. I'd put it in the GM call category. Grab the mage first. I'm trying to stunbolt, but he's got me in a full nelson! |
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Aug 31 2013, 10:00 PM
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#25
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
There are no rules requiring any of that, though - as it stands, all of that is there only as RP and Centering - and accordingly, a player would be well within their rights to be pretty upset with that call, because it has basically no support or precedent. Actually I just sited two rules. Both perception of magic and sorcery state there are gestures in most cases. A player would not be well within their rights to be upset because a GM interpreted those passages as requiring enough in the way of gestures to be stopped by a grapple. Unless something is specific in the rules, that is exactly what a GM is for interpreting those grey areas. And since it never says these gestures can be ignored by the mage whenever he wants or they are such small gestures they can not be restrained by things like grapples it is pretty much up to the GM to decide. |
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