IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Grappling & Spellcasting
yesferatu
post Aug 29 2013, 04:36 PM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 352
Joined: 10-August 10
From: Madison, WI
Member No.: 18,916



So I was going over the grapple rules and I can't seem to figure out magicians can still cast spells or conjure while immobilized.
"Otherwise the defender remains subdued and cannot take any actions requiring physical movement."
Does casting a spell constitute "physical movement"?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SpellBinder
post Aug 29 2013, 04:49 PM
Post #2


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,351
Joined: 19-September 09
From: Behind the shadows of the Resonance
Member No.: 17,653



In SR4, yes, provided the spellcaster in question took a Gesture Geas then physical movement is required. Otherwise it does not.

In SR5, no, spellcasting requires no physical movement.

Well, no movement except for what might be necessary to touch the target with the appropriate spell. Grappling a magician that knows the Shatter spell is a very risky proposition.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DMiller
post Aug 30 2013, 12:41 AM
Post #3


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 681
Joined: 23-March 10
From: Japan
Member No.: 18,343



Or any of the elemental aura (SR4) spells... Ouch.

Seems they removed them in SR5, at least until a magic splat book comes out. *fingers crossed*
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RHat
post Aug 30 2013, 05:36 AM
Post #4


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,962
Joined: 27-February 13
Member No.: 76,875



QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Aug 29 2013, 09:49 AM) *
In SR4, yes, provided the spellcaster in question took a Gesture Geas then physical movement is required. Otherwise it does not.


And even then, the spellcaster can violate the geas and then be forced to deal with the involved penalties.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shemhazai
post Aug 30 2013, 10:29 AM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 598
Joined: 12-October 05
Member No.: 7,835



The Centering metamagic in SR5 needs some activity, and that activity might require your hands to be free. Making arcane gestures, for example.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 30 2013, 02:31 PM
Post #6


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Aug 30 2013, 03:29 AM) *
The Centering metamagic in SR5 needs some activity, and that activity might require your hands to be free. Making arcane gestures, for example.


Thought it required some significant action (like in SR4A), though it did not have to be physical. Is that not the case in SR5? I know that in SR4A, your Centering could be something as simple as Casting in Latin, which requires no physical movement whatsoever, but does require your casting to be Verbal.

QUOTE (SR4A, Centering Metamagic)
Centering techniques include acts such as chanting in Latin, dancing, making arcane gestures, and so on.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack VII
post Aug 30 2013, 03:27 PM
Post #7


Skillwire Savant
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,154
Joined: 5-April 13
From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ
Member No.: 88,139



Centering appears to be pretty much the same (I think some of the art is from 2nd or 3rd edition in that section), at least flavor wise. You can chant, although I think that is why Shemhazai said "might" require.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 30 2013, 03:43 PM
Post #8


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Jack VII @ Aug 30 2013, 08:27 AM) *
Centering appears to be pretty much the same (I think some of the art is from 2nd or 3rd edition in that section), at least flavor wise. You can chant, although I think that is why Shemhazai said "might" require.


Ahh, missed that, even though I copied it. Reading with a Glitch, apparently. *sigh*
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shemhazai
post Aug 30 2013, 03:43 PM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 598
Joined: 12-October 05
Member No.: 7,835



Yep. But once it's chosen, I don't think it can be changed. I'd rather be able to get the drain benefit while staying quiet.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack VII
post Aug 30 2013, 03:44 PM
Post #10


Skillwire Savant
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,154
Joined: 5-April 13
From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ
Member No.: 88,139



I always liked the guys who tried to take Zen Archery as their Centering skill, trying to combine a Take Aim action/Archery/and Magic thinking no one would be like GTFO.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 30 2013, 03:46 PM
Post #11


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Aug 30 2013, 08:43 AM) *
Yep. But once it's chosen, I don't think it can be changed. I'd rather be able to get the drain benefit while staying quiet.


You could always take the Metamagic Twice, with different Centering Techniques. Obviously they would not stack benefits, but it would give you some options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 30 2013, 03:47 PM
Post #12


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Jack VII @ Aug 30 2013, 08:44 AM) *
I always liked the guys who tried to take Zen Archery as their Centering skill, trying to combine a Take Aim action/Archery/and Magic thinking no one would be like GTFO.


You can do that (what a waste)... Just do not expect to shoot an arrow AND cast spells at the same time. They are exclusive actions, after all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
And they would not stack... Take aim and Shoot your arrow (and get no spell), or Center with your skill (You cannot take aim unfortunately, since aiming with spells is generally not effective) and use your spell (and get no Arrow). It is a waste to have Zen Archery for your Centering.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jack VII
post Aug 30 2013, 03:50 PM
Post #13


Skillwire Savant
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,154
Joined: 5-April 13
From: Aurora Warrens, UCAS Sector of the FRFZ
Member No.: 88,139



Right, I'm just laughing about people who tried to rationalize it out for "versimilitude" or "realism"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 30 2013, 04:15 PM
Post #14


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Jack VII @ Aug 30 2013, 08:50 AM) *
Right, I'm just laughing about people who tried to rationalize it out for "versimilitude" or "realism"


Heh... Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I like Kata or Chanting in Latin, depending upon character. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dolanar
post Aug 30 2013, 05:37 PM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 651
Joined: 20-July 12
From: Arizona
Member No.: 53,066



Actually my main character's Adept Centering technique was taking a deep breath
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 30 2013, 05:59 PM
Post #16


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Dolanar @ Aug 30 2013, 10:37 AM) *
Actually my main character's Adept Centering technique was taking a deep breath


A Centering Breath, so to speak... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shemhazai
post Aug 30 2013, 06:12 PM
Post #17


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 598
Joined: 12-October 05
Member No.: 7,835



QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 30 2013, 10:46 AM) *
You could always take the Metamagic Twice, with different Centering Techniques. Obviously they would not stack benefits, but it would give you some options. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I never thought of that. You're a genius.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 30 2013, 08:37 PM
Post #18


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Aug 30 2013, 11:12 AM) *
I never thought of that. You're a genius.


One of many ways in which I keep Ares Macrotechnology functioning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Voran
post Aug 31 2013, 12:27 AM
Post #19


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,401
Joined: 23-February 04
From: Honolulu, HI
Member No.: 6,099



QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Aug 30 2013, 10:43 AM) *
Ahh, missed that, even though I copied it. Reading with a Glitch, apparently. *sigh*


Was your wireless enabled?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Aug 31 2013, 02:14 AM
Post #20


Prime Runner Ascendant
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 17,568
Joined: 26-March 09
From: Aurora, Colorado
Member No.: 17,022



QUOTE (Voran @ Aug 30 2013, 05:27 PM) *
Was your wireless enabled?


Nope... Throwback all the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shinobi Killfist
post Aug 31 2013, 02:57 AM
Post #21


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,431
Joined: 3-December 03
Member No.: 5,872



Meh I'm not so sure on being able to case a spell while grappled. While concentration is the only thing required traditions may require chanting and gesturing. Both page 279 perceiving magic and 280 sorcery talk about gestures being part of it. I suspect outside the psychic tradition some level of gestures come with the tradition and can be interrupted by a grapple. I'd put it in the GM call category.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RHat
post Aug 31 2013, 06:50 AM
Post #22


Shooting Target
****

Group: Members
Posts: 1,962
Joined: 27-February 13
Member No.: 76,875



QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 30 2013, 07:57 PM) *
Meh I'm not so sure on being able to case a spell while grappled. While concentration is the only thing required traditions may require chanting and gesturing. Both page 279 perceiving magic and 280 sorcery talk about gestures being part of it. I suspect outside the psychic tradition some level of gestures come with the tradition and can be interrupted by a grapple. I'd put it in the GM call category.


There are no rules requiring any of that, though - as it stands, all of that is there only as RP and Centering - and accordingly, a player would be well within their rights to be pretty upset with that call, because it has basically no support or precedent.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sendaz
post Aug 31 2013, 07:34 AM
Post #23


Runner
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,039
Joined: 23-March 05
From: The heart of Rywfol Emwolb Industries
Member No.: 7,216



Plus consider are the gestures you are speaking of involuntary or required? It may be a subconscious action to point at someone you are blasting, but the question becomes is it actually required. If not, then grappling probably won't interrupt it.

MetaHumans have tons of little tells, tics and other quirks they do everyday and are often without being aware of it, something any seasoned poker player will use to their advantage, but these do not necessarily mean they are directly connected in the sense that disrupting the tell disrupts the associated action.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shemhazai
post Aug 31 2013, 02:10 PM
Post #24


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 598
Joined: 12-October 05
Member No.: 7,835



QUOTE (Shinobi Killfist @ Aug 30 2013, 09:57 PM) *
Meh I'm not so sure on being able to case a spell while grappled. While concentration is the only thing required traditions may require chanting and gesturing. Both page 279 perceiving magic and 280 sorcery talk about gestures being part of it. I suspect outside the psychic tradition some level of gestures come with the tradition and can be interrupted by a grapple. I'd put it in the GM call category.

Grab the mage first.

I'm trying to stunbolt, but he's got me in a full nelson!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shinobi Killfist
post Aug 31 2013, 10:00 PM
Post #25


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,431
Joined: 3-December 03
Member No.: 5,872



QUOTE (RHat @ Aug 31 2013, 01:50 AM) *
There are no rules requiring any of that, though - as it stands, all of that is there only as RP and Centering - and accordingly, a player would be well within their rights to be pretty upset with that call, because it has basically no support or precedent.


Actually I just sited two rules. Both perception of magic and sorcery state there are gestures in most cases. A player would not be well within their rights to be upset because a GM interpreted those passages as requiring enough in the way of gestures to be stopped by a grapple. Unless something is specific in the rules, that is exactly what a GM is for interpreting those grey areas. And since it never says these gestures can be ignored by the mage whenever he wants or they are such small gestures they can not be restrained by things like grapples it is pretty much up to the GM to decide.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 03:28 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.