Unstoppable Elven Technomancer Assassin! Options

[Slithery D]

So I finally read the matrix rules for SR5 to see why everyone hates technomancers in this version and I don't get it. Here is a modest build proposal that makes them very useful.

Obviously the correct thing to do is build an elven technomancer with Exceptional Attribute Charisma, put 9 points in it, pay a mage to quicken a Force 9 Increase Charisma spell as soon as you can to boost that to 13, then start Submerging and take as Echos: Attack Upgrade (2), Resonance Decryption program, Resonance Biofeedback program, Resonance Hammer program, and Resonance Lockdown program.

Your matrix DV will be 18(!!), or 24 if you bother to max out your marks first, and with lockdown and biofeedback you'll be sure to kill pretty much all spiders you can hit in 1-2 combat rounds. Even cold sim users will go down to the lock and stun overflow. The rare person who managed to jack out and not go into overflow after soaking the dumpshock will live as the rarest of matrix legends for surviving your wrath.

Put all the rest of your karma (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif) into Cybercombat skill buy a Cerebral Booster 3 and a Pain Editor. After you've maxed out Cybercombat skill and have 21 attack dice you can start putting some karma into Firewall echos and Willpower. You pansy.

This is clearly a well balanced and reasonably achievable character who proves that contrary to the erroneous fantasies of Dumpshockers, deckers are actually quite obsolete compared to technomancers.

[Abschalten]

So you're saying after putting (literally) hundreds of karma and thousands of nuyen into your one-trick pony he'll be AWESOME at that one thing he's focused on? Color me surprised! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

People get so hung up on the "potentially limitless" advancement potential of Resonance and Magic after submersions that they put blinders on to how much karma is required to get up there. Do you really think that HUNDREDS OF KARMA is a reasonable timeline for advancement, to be good at a single thing? I ran a campaign for almost two years and the players got 150 total karma earned. Your character is advancing at a nearly glacial pace.

Just a hint: if your character concept requires hundreds of karma to become good at one thing, then chances are it probably isn't all that smart a build. Technomancers are still crap, plain and simple.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I am giving SlitheryD the benefit of the Doubt here... My guess is that he was being sarcastic, while pointing out that Technomancers were overly penalized in the transition to SR5. Could be wrong, though... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Abschalten]

Consider me suitably trolled, then, if that is the case. Technomancers are still a bit of a sore spot for me in regards to the new edition.

[Jaid]

i read that as being sarcastic as well.

perhaps if he were to spend a paragraph or two ranting about how obviously versatile this build is, that would help (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Slithery D]

I thought it was pretty obvious I was joking. I do find it ironic, however, that the best way to be a technomancer is to largely ignore Resonance abilities and focus on magically boosted Attributes to have better Matrix Attributes than you can get with a cyberdeck.

After discussion on here I was prepared for high drain codes on threaded complex forms, but I didn't know they were going to be so...useless. What does Static Bomb do that a normal matrix Hide action doesn't, other than damage you in the process? Ditto for Editor CF vs. Edit File action.

Resonance Spike is hilariously bad compared to a Data Spike action. Who would use this garbage even if the Fading cost was L-99?

[SpellBinder]

...

After discussion on here I was prepared for high drain codes on threaded complex forms, but I didn't know they were going to be so...useless. What does Static Bomb do that a normal matrix Hide action doesn't, other than damage you in the process? Ditto for Editor CF vs. Edit File action.

Resonance Spike is hilariously bad compared to a Data Spike action. Who would use this garbage even if the Fading cost was L-99?

Static Bomb doesn't generate OS, and affects multiple targets at once.

Editor has the advantage of not requiring a MARK.

Resonance Spike... Yeah, Data Spike is likely gonna be better.

[Slithery D]

Meh, I'd rather just spam Cleaner at low level or permasustain Static Veil during long waiting periods to manage OS. I suppose I can see the use of multiple targets if you're being swarmed, but not at that Fading code.

For Editor, at that Fading code a single mark doesn't seem like much of an additional burden.

[SpellBinder]

Yeah, and if you don't need MARKs of your own there's an even easier way to hide yourself: Reboot, which not only cleans you of all marks but also resets your OS to zero.

[Jaid]

editor also edits things a heck of a lot faster than edit actions, because it gives you your net hits in edit actions.

[SpellBinder]

Editor also takes [Level] Combat Turns before it becomes permanent.

[Jaid]

Editor also takes [Level] Combat Turns before it becomes permanent.

sure, but it starts working immediately.

plus, that could actually be an advantage sometimes... you can make your edits disappear.

(and remember: copying a program is an edit action).

[xsansara]

Well, actually the elven Attackomancer is the first specialist approach to a viable TM I have seen so far. You start with 9 or more probably 8 DV out of the box, which is actually a possible way to brick something reliably within just one action. With just Cybercombat and Computer, and none of the other skills you still can get marks, crash programs and devices, get the data, assist the actual decker, ...

Your primary focus would be Face, of course.

Lowest TM prio is C, then either Elf B to get a lot of Edge, Attributes A, Skills D, Ressources E, which makes you a lucky amateur or Elf D, Attr A/B, Skills B/A, Ress. E again, which makes you an unlucky pro. There is also a lot of potential, spend your Karma on Face skills or submersions and your Nuyen on wares, as you don't actually need your Resonance.

Still, a lot of investmest to be able to one-shot brick someone, which is not my favourite attack anyway.

[Dantic]

I still find the best way to deal with TM changes for SR5 is to gently weep myself to sleep at night. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)

[Abschalten]

I still find the best way to deal with TM changes for SR5 is to gently weep myself to sleep at night. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)

Sounds about right.

After the epic fuck-up that is the technomancer rules for SR5, among other massive fails, I really have no faith or confidence in the current leadership and development of the Shadowrun line. If that sounds like a strong statement, well, yeah. It's meant to be. It's how I've felt ever since I digested the massive turd that is the SR5 rules.

[Draco18s]

After the epic fuck-up that is the technomancer rules for SR5, among other massive fails, I really have no faith or confidence in the current leadership and development of the Shadowrun line. If that sounds like a strong statement, well, yeah. It's meant to be. It's how I've felt ever since I digested the massive turd that is the SR5 rules.

I agree. There are some things they did that worked well.

And then there's everything else.

[Slithery D]

Other than the grenade/AOE defense fiasco, what else are you pissed about? I like most of the changes but no doubt haven't though through all of the implications enough to figure how they're secretly screwing some people.

[Abschalten]

Technomancers.

Mysterious nanite-melting nonsense.

Stupid economy.

Half-assed Matrix rules with even more loop-holes than SR4's.

Half-baked wireless bonus rules.

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can think of at the present moment, and I really don't want to derail the topic any more than it is already (let's get back to our Swiftian-style epic troll.)

[Epicedion]

Other than the grenade/AOE defense fiasco, what else are you pissed about? I like most of the changes but no doubt haven't though through all of the implications enough to figure how they're secretly screwing some people.

If you consider that they seem to cling to the edition that is the least like all the other editions, I think you can come to the conclusion that Shadowrun just isn't a game they like. Nanite hives and technomancers and wi-fis are a pretty brief blip in the overall scheme of things.

[Abschalten]

If you consider that they seem to cling to the edition that is the least like all the other editions, I think you can come to the conclusion that Shadowrun just isn't a game they like. Nanite hives and technomancers and wi-fis are a pretty brief blip in the overall scheme of things.

This is some pretty presumptuous shit, here. I got into Shadowrun back in in Third Edition, ten years ago. I got into the game for the setting, not the rules (which had issues, but I worked through them.)

SR4 was a huge step forward in many ways. I like the advancement of the setting, the metaplot, and the rules changes. I thought as a whole they worked rather well. Over time I even came to like the SR4 Matrix rules.

But because I don't like the overall package of SR5, I must not like Shadowrun in general? To me, SR5 seems regressing, not moving forward. YMMV, of course, but overall I'll only play it if I don't have any other choice, and I sure as shit don't have to give CGL any more of my money.

[Epicedion]

This is some pretty presumptuous shit, here. I got into Shadowrun back in in Third Edition, ten years ago. I got into the game for the setting, not the rules (which had issues, but I worked through them.)

SR4 was a huge step forward in many ways. I like the advancement of the setting, the metaplot, and the rules changes. I thought as a whole they worked rather well. Over time I even came to like the SR4 Matrix rules.

But because I don't like the overall package of SR5, I must not like Shadowrun in general? To me, SR5 seems regressing, not moving forward. YMMV, of course, but overall I'll only play it if I don't have any other choice, and I sure as shit don't have to give CGL any more of my money.

You're repeating what I said, just all angry and contrary.

We could be having the same conversation about how D&D5 elves can't teleport like D&D4 elves and how that's a regression, but how you view it entirely depends on whether or not you thing it was a good progression in the first place.

The SR4 setting changes are ultimately a spin-off of Shadowrun -- there's a lot in there that completely changes the game and the way you could expect the game to play going forward, but a whole lot of it has been pulled back for the new edition to bring it more in line with expectations from SR2 and SR3. SR4 is comparatively way out in left field at this point.

RPGs are funny things, in that you can put the genie back in the bottle, and that's what they've done. If you think they shouldn't have, it means you didn't think it was too a shitty genie to begin with, and there's not much to say to you about it except that you like the spin-off more than the base game.

There's no immutable law of the universe that says that anything that they said happened in a particular edition actually happened and they just have to forever work from those established premises like an undergrad trying to get his GPA back up after flunking calculus.

[RHat]

Spin-off is completely inaccurate - it was a progression, and one without which I very much doubt Shadowrun could have survived. Now you might think that the progression took away too much of the old, but destroying the new just to bring that back more of the old is a horrible choice.

And besides that, your particular point of comparison is HILARIOUSLY irrelevant, because it represents a completely different thing.

[Epicedion]

Spin-off is completely inaccurate - it was a progression, and one without which I very much doubt Shadowrun could have survived. Now you might think that the progression took away too much of the old, but destroying the new just to bring that back more of the old is a horrible choice.

And besides that, your particular point of comparison is HILARIOUSLY irrelevant, because it represents a completely different thing.

Nah. SR4 is the AfterMASH to SR3's movie and SR5's TV show.

[Epicedion]

Or maybe W*A*L*T*E*R.

Seriously, that was almost a thing? Wow. Not sorry I missed that one.

[RHat]

Nah. SR4 is the AfterMASH to SR3's movie and SR5's TV show.

Why? What makes that the case?