 Encumberance, whatever you do, don't move the sofa |
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 Apr 30 2004, 05:08 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 442 Joined: 23-April 04 From: Pennsylvania Member No.: 6,280  |
Is it me, or are the encumberance rules on pg 274 of SR3 really punishing? The way I'm reading it, a character with STR 2 can carry 10 "kg" without penalty. But if he goes over that, six seconds later he's taking a light stun wound and 18 seconds after that he's fallen unconscious. Now, I have roughly a strength 2, and I can move furniture up the stairs without needing medical attention. Am I reading these rules completely wrong or what?
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Apr 30 2004, 05:14 PM
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#2
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
lol, no, it's just a crap rule.
I think it would be more consistent if carrying too large a load penalized combat pool or quickness tests, similar to layering armor. And the weight limits are pretty ridiculous. |
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Apr 30 2004, 05:30 PM
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#3
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
You're exactly right. The rules are bullshit, and probably the result of an interesting story involving Mike Mulvihill, 18 bottles of tequila, and the Mexican police.
I'm sure Austere'll pop into this thread and post hi (infinitely more sensible) rules on the subject. |
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Apr 30 2004, 06:01 PM
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#4
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,950 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
But if the rules were more sensible, I wouldn't be able to claim a Strength of at least 5, probably closer to 6 from having been able to tote my school backpack back in High School around without dying!
~J |
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Apr 30 2004, 09:46 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 |
:rotfl: Welcome to my world. And I can't say my backpack helped my scholiosis(sp?)... |
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Apr 30 2004, 09:50 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
It's pretty much an optional rule to be used if PCs are carrying an unfeasible amount of equipment.
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Apr 30 2004, 09:50 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
I'd reply to this topic, but I pulled a muscle trying to push my keyboard into place...
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Apr 30 2004, 10:53 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 5-March 03 From: Wouldn't you like to know? Member No.: 4,203 |
I use my "reallity" rule for carrying things. Especially since most of hte weights of things are messed up in the book anways. I mean almost a kilo for a spare clip? that must be one big fragging clip. Anyways I tossed out the Encumb. rules a long long time ago. Just use common sense in what a person can carry. Cause sure a person with an 8 strength could carry a rotoray assault cannon butthat don't mean that they can. that would be like one person carrying a couch ot can be done if they are strong enough but still crazy difficult to move with it no matter how "light" it feels.
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Apr 30 2004, 11:02 PM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
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Apr 30 2004, 11:30 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
Uh.... your backpack massed FIFTY KILOGRAMS?? That's fragging 110 pounds! Note the discontinuity in the rules. You can carry up to (Str × 5) kg "without appreciable effect". But the rules don't actually provide any penalties until you exceed (Str × 10) kg. I'm not sure what happens if you try to carry more than (Str × 5) kg but less than (Str × 10) kg. Maybe you collapse into a singularity and the universe is sucked into the resulting black hole. |
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Apr 30 2004, 11:38 PM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,950 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Ah. Ok, my backpack was closer to 27 kilograms. Mmm, singularities...
~J |
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May 1 2004, 12:11 AM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Seriously, what the hell were you lugging around? That's 2' x 1.5' x 1' of hardcover books. A duffel bag full of books might just get that heavy if it's well stacked.
The total weight of the "full package" of the Finnish Defense Forces, which includes all combat gear of the average infantryman as well as a large backpack with camping gear is nominally ~26kg. |
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May 1 2004, 12:31 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 26-April 04 Member No.: 6,284 |
In D&D there's maximum dexterity (quickness) and an penalty to certain skills when you go over your light load - I like the reduction of the combat pool though, that sounds more apt.
Where'd they come up with these numbers? My sister weighs enough that I should pass out from the load, so much for the piggyback rides I give her :-) |
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May 1 2004, 12:39 AM
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#14
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Yeah, well that's all designed to minimize the actual carried weight. I'm fully convinced that school books are designed the exact opposite way: to cram as much weight into them as possible. :P |
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May 1 2004, 12:45 AM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
And at 26kg, it's 1kg over the weight a Strength 5 character can safely character. Bring on the Stun damage.
Err, that's because it's up to those limits. Hence "up to (STR×5)kg." |
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May 1 2004, 01:01 AM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
No, it's not. It's 1kg over the weight that a Strength 5 character can carry "without appreciable effect". However, the Stun damage does not start occurring until '[t]wice that load (Strength × 10 kg)". A Str 5 character can carry up to 50 kg without actually suffering any penalty. I'm not sure what "appreciable effect" applies between (Str × 5) kg and (Str × 10) kg, but, whatever it is, it isn't mentioned in the rules.
I can't figure out how this comment is supposed to apply to what I said. |
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May 1 2004, 01:03 AM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Those penalties apply from (STR×5)+0.0000000000000000000000001kg up to (STR×10)kg. It's not from (STR×10)kg and up. It's up to (STR×10)kg from (STR×5)kg.
The context is pretty clear even if the wording isn't. But that's pretty common in the rules. EDIT: That's why (STR×20kg) is the max, not the lowest end of the max. By your reading, the character could carry 1,000,000kg and still suffer only the Serious wound. This post has been edited by A Clockwork Lime: May 1 2004, 01:06 AM |
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May 1 2004, 01:21 AM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
Uh.... hmm. You may be right. I still maintain that my interpretation is what the rules actually say, but it does look like yours is what they intended. You're right that there's no actual maximum cap under my interpretation (not that it really matters, because you frickin' die if you try to exceed even the unencumbered limit). The next paragraph makes it clear that Str×20 is intended to be the hard maximum, though.
And here I was thinking that it was broken even with a Str×10 cap before the Stun kicks in. With a Str×5 cap, I'd pass out just from putting my mail on (hasn't happened yet)... |
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May 1 2004, 01:21 AM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
You might be able to get to 80 pounds with a large backpack if the books are glossy-type and packed well. |
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May 1 2004, 01:39 AM
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#20
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I lugged about 30kg of stuff to the university everyday... a few plasticky paged(those wierd polymer pages that are sooo glossy) textbooks, a steel setsquare, a steel ruler, a full set of stationary(battle tested, in fact, but that's another story)...
So yeah... you could easily get into the 30-40 kg range. |
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May 1 2004, 02:38 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 3-February 04 Member No.: 6,054 |
I looked at these rules a couple days ago and was annoyed, How will my (S:6) Shapeshifter Tiger character be able to carry his (normal weight, 175lbs.) human friend into battle? (see movie Princess Mononoke for general example)
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May 1 2004, 03:07 AM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
If you think that's bad, consider the fact that a troll -- who is supposed to be insanely strong -- has no chance of lifting itself. Average Strength for a troll is, what, 7? That means the most they could lift is 182kg. A troll of average Body and Strength weighs 225kg.
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May 1 2004, 04:47 AM
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#23
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,950 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Three full-sized textbooks (Hardcover, ~450 pages long IIRC), one copy of the Aeneid, one copy of the Illead, one English to Latin dictionary, one workbook-style book, a few random plays or novels depending on what was happening in English at the time, and a stack of notecards. That's just the backpack. My laptop, the case, the random stuff I lugged around, and the ~500 sheets of paper I had stuffed into it at any given point in time probably added another 5-7 kilos. ~J |
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May 1 2004, 06:00 AM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 338 |
Sounds about right to me. The average troll probably couldn't lift itself. Take, for example, the simple chin up. A lot of people can't do a single chin up, and when you start getting into people who are much taller than normal, or who are simply overweight, the rate of being able to do a single chin up decreases. I've seen a lot of small people, who weight roughly 45kgs, unable to lift their body weight in a chin up. A troll is fucking huge, and without being very physically active, they're not going to be able to lift their body weight. Period. Your upper body does a lot less work than your lower body, and for most people the arms aren't going to be able to do as much as the legs. As for the stun ruling, everyone go outside and do some chin ups. See how many you can do before you can't do anymore. Not many, is it? At the very high end of the scale, we're looking at around 20 before you can't do anymore, and that will be done in well under a minute. Perhaps the stun damage is too much, but the time frames for lifting aren't entirely moronic.
Although a lot of people have made this claim, I'll pick on you. Go put 40 killograms worth of cast iron weight into a backpack, then try to put it on and walk around with it. I think you'll all find that it's a lot heavier than you originally thought. |
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May 1 2004, 06:03 AM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,616 Joined: 15-March 04 Member No.: 6,158 |
Very well, translate "do a pull-up" to "carry your bride over the threshold." An average troll can just barely carry an ork, and carrying a human would leave them breathless within seconds.
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