Wireless, Poll: Why don't you really like it? Options

[Smash]

This is to just gauge the feeling on Dumpshock about the wireless issue. We can argue the points forever but if the issue about concept rather than mechanics then that's useful for moving forward.

[Dolanar]

...I feel as though this is a loaded question in this community

[Kyrel]

You know, as much as I can follow the idea of having a hacker being able to hack someone's cyberware, and though I can see that maintenance of some types of 'ware might be easier to perform, if you have wireless connectivity on the 'ware, I have to admit that I have a problem with the concept in general. In a world where hacking through encryption and firewalls take only seconds, no matter the level of protection we are talking about, having limbs, organs, and other important parts of people's anatomy be possible to hack and shut down, just doesn't sit right with me. I can follow why your average Joe Blow with a regular job might be willing to have his artificial arm and leg be set up for wireless connectivity, seeing as the odds of anyone ever hacking them are probably worse than an astroid falling on his head while he's having breakfast. But for people in professions where their lives are on the line, and where they regularly face off against opponents who have the ability and the will to attack and disable their cyberware at a critical moment, for those type of people there simply isn't any valid reason for accepting such a risk, unless there is absolutely no other way around it. And in this case, there is no valid reason why connections between cyberware and the hostbody can't be made using internal wireconnections, and why service/maintenance can't be kept easy with the addition of an external dataport that can be connected to with a cable connection.
If hackers were one-in-a-billion, then maybe. If safe encryption existed, or if breaking it at least took some hours, rather than seconds, then maybe. But the way the world of Shadowrun is described today, having your gear bricked is simply too easy for it so make sense to run the risk as a Runner or similar combat/security professional.

That being said, I would STRONGLY support changing the descriptions of "bricking" to reflect what it actually means within the rules. But I would prefer to keep the option to hack cyberware as they were in 4a, meaning avoidable by professionals.

[KCKitsune]

In my mind there is a difference in bricking gear and bricking cyberware. Cyberware should not be able to be bricked at all. Hell, I can't really see a reason for cyberware to be online other than a commlink.

[Jaid]

2 main reasons:

1) i feel that some of the specific bonuses are completely nonsensical, and completely defy logic. the matrix is not a deity that grants you your wishes when you turn a device online. bonuses should reflect that. being able to use the wireless matrix to communicate with unlimited range on your subvocal mic? no problem. being able to use the matrix to activate a device on your person faster than you could by not using the matrix? eh.... no thanks.

2) i feel that, as has been pointed out above, people in a security-conscious field would not be willing to take the risk of having their gear online, and gear designed to be used exclusively by those individuals should be designed to function offline.

i'm not opposed to the idea of wireless bonuses. i'm opposed to the implementation.

[SpellBinder]

I'm with Jaid. That, and the addition that the implementation being something that was to give deckers/hackers something to do in combat...


Pssssht... Like they didn't already have stuff to do in combat.

[binarywraith]

Honestly, I don't mind there being a wireless Matrix.

I do mind connecting things that have absolutely no reason to be connected to the Matrix to it, and the whole 'bricking' concept is both unnecessary and so absurdly poorly developed in the rules as written as to be a joke.

Seriously, it's two paragraphs of fluff that doesn't actually go into any detail at all, and manages to somehow have contradicting fluff and mechanics in a bit of rules shorter than the blurb on a cereal box.

As Jaid and Spellbinder said, there's no reason wireless bonuses couldn't be good... if they were implemented well. Which they are manifestly not.

[Rystefn]

The new wireless rules make Rystefn sad. So much potential for awesome, and to fall so dramatically short like that... it's heartbreaking. I am pro hacking cyberware if it's online, but if you don't give a compelling reason for it to be online, it's not going to be. That reason should make some kind of sense, too. Yes, that means some ware will never be online. No, there's nothing wrong with that. I can think of all kinds of information I might want in my field of view from other locations. If I know someone could send me wrong information and screw me over that way, then I have to ask how badly I want that information. This is good. I can't think of any reason I'd want outside information getting to my cyberleg, so I leave it off. Or have wireless capability removed at the hardware level. That's fine, too. What we got instead are a pile of bonuses that don't come close to being worth the risk, don't make any sense, or both. That's bad.

[Glyph]

None of the options quite describe my opinion. Wireless bonuses are fine, but the implementation sucks. The bonuses make no sense, and quite often equate to "be hackable or be gimped". Bricking is also poorly implemented. I could see messing up software, but permanently damaging hardware - I don't see how that would work.

Wireless should make sense. I wish they had expanded the rules for tacnets and sensors, and made those hackable. That would have made a lot more sense. Drones, I could see too, if they are being remotely controlled. Security systems, also. But saying that your wired reflexes and reaction enhancers don't work together unless they are online, and that a hacker can permanently damage them by hacking them if they are online, makes absolutely no sense.

[SpellBinder]

I'd also like to add that wired should work just as well as wireless in some circumstances. If Reaction Enhancers and Wired Reflexes are only communicating with each other wirelessly, then running a wire between the two should work just as well.

[binarywraith]

I'd also like to add that wired should work just as well as wireless in some circumstances. If Reaction Enhancers and Wired Reflexes are only communicating with each other wirelessly, then running a wire between the two should work just as well.

Better, actually. A wire would have more bandwidth and be immune to signal degradation via noise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fiddler]

I figure the reason the reaction enhancers/wired reflexes is like that is a cost saving measure, they just build them one way and do it for the least amount of money. Well it's as close to an in character explanation i can come up with at least. I like the idea of hacking gear but they really don't do a good enough explanation of bricking and they could have come up with better bonuses. The charging while wifi is enabled is one that really bothers me for some reason. Induction charging should not require a matrix connection.

[Remnar]

I'd also like to add that wired should work just as well as wireless in some circumstances. If Reaction Enhancers and Wired Reflexes are only communicating with each other wirelessly, then running a wire between the two should work just as well.

Hey now, going down that road will make people wonder why that isn't done by default since they are pretty much installed in the same areas...

I never was on board with any of the wireless hacking of gear or ware except for things like spamming AR or hacking vid feeds. Anything else shouldn't really be opened up for hacking attack by anyone with half a brain, why add complexity for complexity's sake (especially when it makes absolutely no fraggin' sense).

Also, why can't I still have my implanted induction pads? I miss those.

[binarywraith]

Hey now, going down that road will make people wonder why that isn't done by default since they are pretty much installed in the same areas...

I never was on board with any of the wireless hacking of gear or ware except for things like spamming AR or hacking vid feeds. Anything else shouldn't really be opened up for hacking attack by anyone with half a brain, why add complexity for complexity's sake (especially when it makes absolutely no fraggin' sense).

Also, why can't I still have my implanted induction pads? I miss those.

You can, they're just classed as 'Throwback' gear, and don't get wireless bonuses.

If the bonuses made sense in any way, you could make a case for them just lacking new and improved features, but alas that wasn't what got published.

[Rubic]

Can't vote in the pole. False presumptions, possibly trolling.

[cryptoknight]

In my mind there is a difference in bricking gear and bricking cyberware. Cyberware should not be able to be bricked at all. Hell, I can't really see a reason for cyberware to be online other than a commlink.

I think Bricking as written (broken, sparking, smoking, etc) is junk.

Make said device crashed instead of broken, require a simple or complex action to reboot it.

Reboot time is 2D6 - DR(min 1) combat turns and the device or cyberware returns to functionality.

Now we don't have to deal with Wired reflexes shorting out along your spinal column, or your encephalon frying your brain.

[bannockburn]

Accidentally null voted.
I wanted to chose the second option (Yes, if it's logical and consistent then brick away!).

Bricking is less interesting to me than combat hacking in general, though. I like the general idea of hackers making commlink contacts or display glasses show weird stuff and the like.

[quentra]

That's something I've always seen/done with hackers and TMs in fourth myself. Listen, daisy-chain all you like, but corpsec and the Joe Wageslave you've marked for grabbing biometrics to break into a secured facility don't have that sort of security awareness. And you know how everyone relies on AR and GPS? I fuck with that shit all the time.

Bricking a device is cool, sure, but what's cooler is a bunch of agents/sprites playing havoc with someone's - or a group of someones- image link. "But it's not Matrix-enabled!" they say. "But it is slaved to their link - if you can't hack a corpsec or even HTR link, you're a shit hacker and why did we hire you for this run anyway?" Now, if SR5 gave more options for doing that, instead of clumsily shoe-horning in a fucking direct damage subsystem for hackers and breaking fifty things in the process - I might have actually liked SR5. But it didn't, so.

[DeathStrobe]

That's something I've always seen/done with hackers and TMs in fourth myself. Listen, daisy-chain all you like, but corpsec and the Joe Wageslave you've marked for grabbing biometrics to break into a secured facility don't have that sort of security awareness. And you know how everyone relies on AR and GPS? I fuck with that shit all the time.

Bricking a device is cool, sure, but what's cooler is a bunch of agents/sprites playing havoc with someone's - or a group of someones- image link. "But it's not Matrix-enabled!" they say. "But it is slaved to their link - if you can't hack a corpsec or even HTR link, you're a shit hacker and why did we hire you for this run anyway?" Now, if SR5 gave more options for doing that, instead of clumsily shoe-horning in a fucking direct damage subsystem for hackers and breaking fifty things in the process - I might have actually liked SR5. But it didn't, so.

But you can still do all those things in SR5 with the mark system. Without any of the bullshit ambiguity of account management.

[Draco18s]

I'm with Jaid. That, and the addition that the implementation being something that was to give deckers/hackers something to do in combat...

^ This.

I like the concept of the Wireless Bonus and that it gives hackers a glowing red becon to "shoot" at, but at the same time I've always been firm that hacking is the least efficient way for the hacker to mess someone up (which is why it's ok to have the wireless functionality enabled: there are so many faster ways to be taken out of the picture).

But largely speaking my issue with SR5's wireless is that the bonuses make no fucking sense and some devices don't even perform in the situation in which they'd be used (e.g. satellite ulink, internal air tank).

[Tashiro]

I'm fine with wireless as presented in 5E. No issues here.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

But you can still do all those things in SR5 with the mark system. Without any of the bullshit ambiguity of account management.

Marks are no different than Account Priveleges. You need 0 to 4 Marks... Which lines up with Guest to Root Superuser... Need 3 Mark? Looks Like Admin to Me. How about 2 Marks? That would be Security Access. I know, lets go for 4 Marks... well, That is Root Superuser. Marks are no different than Priveleges. *shrug*

[DeathStrobe]

Marks are no different than Account Priveleges. You need 0 to 4 Marks... Which lines up with Guest to Root Superuser... Need 3 Mark? Looks Like Admin to Me. How about 2 Marks? That would be Security Access. I know, lets go for 4 Marks... well, That is Root Superuser. Marks are no different than Priveleges. *shrug*

Okay, so what can a security account do? Admin? Is every corporate node locked down so that only admin can access the sensitive pay data you need? The rules were never clear about this, other than the fact that there were different account privileges. Now they have a clear ruling on what each level does with the mark system. This is an improvement.

[Epicedion]

Marks are no different than Account Priveleges. You need 0 to 4 Marks... Which lines up with Guest to Root Superuser... Need 3 Mark? Looks Like Admin to Me. How about 2 Marks? That would be Security Access. I know, lets go for 4 Marks... well, That is Root Superuser. Marks are no different than Priveleges. *shrug*

Except they're entirely different from account privileges, since marks are actually well-defined and useful. 'Account privileges' were obviously designed by someone whose sole experience in the matter was watching half of TRON.

[Dolanar]

yes, but one could take the Marks idea & swap it over & use those "well defined & useful" rules & use them just as well for the Account privs.