SR5 Matrix question, Device => Device communication / wifi inhibitating buildings Options

[apple]

Hoi.

There are some discussions and I can find and rules on it. A page reference (or a quick quote) would be really appreciated.

1) Can eletronic devices communicate with each other, without matrix access? Like Near Field Communication / handshake range / etc. If yes or no, can you point me to the corresponend quote and page number in the SR5 PDF.

2) What happens with the WAN and the PAN in a wifi inhibitating building or in the desert? You have no matrix connection of course, but can you communicate with each other or share data or link your devices, if you are all inside the same shielded room? If yes, whic hrange? Again, quotes or page numbers would be great.

It seems that I am blind, when reading the PDF.

SYL

[Epicedion]

1) Can eletronic devices communicate with each other, without matrix access? Like Near Field Communication / handshake range / etc. If yes or no, can you point me to the corresponend quote and page number in the SR5 PDF.

This isn't really a "page number" question. The answer is no, and it's because the whole Matrix rules imply that turning wireless on for any device automatically hooks it into the Matrix.

2) What happens with the WAN and the PAN in a wifi inhibitating building or in the desert? You have no matrix connection of course, but can you communicate with each other or share data or link your devices, if you are all inside the same shielded room? If yes, whic hrange? Again, quotes or page numbers would be great.

Barren wastelands, high-traffic areas, jammers, and natural or constructed dead zones all generate the same sort of penalty: Noise (considered either activity-based Noise or static-based Noise, but all functionally equivalent). The deader the Matrix is at a location the worse your device gets, and if the Noise rating ever goes higher than a device rating, the device can no longer communicate.

There's a Spam and Static Zones chart on p231 that gives you the rundown on ambient Noise penalties. The section on Noise begins on p230. The Wireless Bonuses section on p421 explains when Noise causes a loss of wireless functionality.

So if you're in a shielded room with 6 Noise from wifi-inhibiting paint, technically your devices can't talk to each other.

[DeathStrobe]

The rules are quite ambiguous right now. So we'll have to wait for Data Trails to get a solid answer on a lot of these questions.

But as it is right now, you are never not in Matrix range, and it is almost impossible to be off the Matrix. Wifi inhibiting paint simply adds noise, it does not actually stop Matrix signals. And noise only affects you if you are doing Matrix actions. So the Sammy's smartgun will still work, but the decker will have a much harder time hacking.

However, there appears to be two different types of noise, which the rules don't seem to make very clear on which one wifi inhibiting paint works with. One type of noise is distance, gear will ignore this. The other is jamming, which if noise exceeds the gear's device rating, it loses contact with the Matrix and so loses its wireless bonuses. Or maybe they both are the same, I don't know. Its kind of confusing. So for right now, you have to kind of work by rule of thumb and do a lot of guessing until Data Trails comes out.

[Epicedion]

The rules are quite ambiguous right now. So we'll have to wait for Data Trails to get a solid answer on a lot of these questions.

But as it is right now, you are never not in Matrix range, and it is almost impossible to be off the Matrix. Wifi inhibiting paint simply adds noise, it does not actually stop Matrix signals. And noise only affects you if you are doing Matrix actions. So the Sammy's smartgun will still work, but the decker will have a much harder time hacking.

However, there appears to be two different types of noise, which the rules don't seem to make very clear on which one wifi inhibiting paint works with. One type of noise is distance, gear will ignore this. The other is jamming, which if noise exceeds the gear's device rating, it loses contact with the Matrix and so loses its wireless bonuses. Or maybe they both are the same, I don't know. Its kind of confusing. So for right now, you have to kind of work by rule of thumb and do a lot of guessing until Data Trails comes out.

The rule is pretty clear (p421):

If there is a Noise Rating from a situation that is greater
than the item’s Device Rating, not including distance,
the item temporarily loses its wireless functionality (see
Noise, p. 230).

Saying "not including distance" might seem a little confusing, but Distance Noise is only applied if you're taking a Matrix Action against a target. What it means is that your cyberdeck doesn't suddenly shut down and leave the Matrix if you encounter a Distance Noise penalty trying to hack them. Distance Noise is irrelevant here except as a penalty on Matrix Actions.

In other words, the only stuff that makes your gear log off is either ambient Noise (from spam or static zone), or generated Noise (from jamming, etc).

There could probably afford to be a certain level of nuance to this in Data Trails, but for the time being that's all it is.

[DeathStrobe]

Saying "not including distance" might seem a little confusing, but Distance Noise is only applied if you're taking a Matrix Action against a target. What it means is that your cyberdeck doesn't suddenly shut down and leave the Matrix if you encounter a Distance Noise penalty trying to hack them. Distance Noise is irrelevant here except as a penalty on Matrix Actions.

In other words, the only stuff that makes your gear log off is either ambient Noise (from spam or static zone), or generated Noise (from jamming, etc).

There could probably afford to be a certain level of nuance to this in Data Trails, but for the time being that's all it is.

And which does wifi paint count as? That's the problem. Its not flooding the radio waves with noise. Say we're in a corp facility, they have wifi paint rating 3. The decker tries to hack a car outside the building, so he gets hit with 3 noise when doing that. But he tries to hack a commlink in this building he doesn't get hit with noise at all. The Street Sam's smartgun is device rating 3, so his gun can work like normal? Or can it? That wifi paint can stop his smartgun from communicating with the wider matrix, but it does not interfere with the smartgun accessing the Matrix grid from inside the facility, or does it? Does wifi inhibiting paint act like distance noise or like jamming noise? And that's the problem with having two types of noise that for the most part work the same but not always working the same.

[BishopMcQ]

Look at Direct Connections, p232. If oyu are plugged directly in, you ignore Noise. You can connect, hack, etc through the cable. Otherwise Noise adds in accordingly. Using common sense, Faraday cages and Wifi inhibiting paint would only apply if you are trying to communicate with something on the other side. Same with the earth, salt water and foliage.

[apple]

What about Smartlink? Can you even use a Smartlink for the +2 Accuracy in a Wifi inhibitating building? I am not talking about the wireless onine bonus (+2 dice), but the basic functionality. Because the weapon communicate with the Smartlink-Cybereye via radio - but since there is no radio connection to the matrix possible would this mean, that even basic functionality does not work? Only with cable?

SYL

[Epicedion]

And which does wifi paint count as? That's the problem. Its not flooding the radio waves with noise. Say we're in a corp facility, they have wifi paint rating 3. The decker tries to hack a car outside the building, so he gets hit with 3 noise when doing that. But he tries to hack a commlink in this building he doesn't get hit with noise at all. The Street Sam's smartgun is device rating 3, so his gun can work like normal? Or can it? That wifi paint can stop his smartgun from communicating with the wider matrix, but it does not interfere with the smartgun accessing the Matrix grid from inside the facility, or does it? Does wifi inhibiting paint act like distance noise or like jamming noise? And that's the problem with having two types of noise that for the most part work the same but not always working the same.

Wifi paint doesn't have any specific rules yet and likely won't until Data Trails. Right now anything that interferes with connecting to the Matrix at large also interferes with connecting gear wirelessly at all.

[apple]

Perhaps I should give another example of my general question.

1) I am in a desert.
2) I am a rigger with a console and a drone.
3) I have no satcom with me (I was unprepared for the sake of the argument).
4) How far can I control my drone / exchange data / give commandas?

SYL

[Jaid]

Perhaps I should give another example of my general question.

1) I am in a desert.
2) I am a rigger with a console and a drone.
3) I have no satcom with me (I was unprepared for the sake of the argument).
4) How far can I control my drone / exchange data / give commandas?

SYL

not sure why you numbered them, as only 4 warrants a response. you can control your drone from the opposite side of the world. however, you will suffer a dice pool penalty to most actions based on the distance noise if you control it directly. if you just want to exchange data and give commands, there is no limit. technically, you can even do so from another planet.

[shonen_mask]

not sure why you numbered them, as only 4 warrants a response. you can control your drone from the opposite side of the world. however, you will suffer a dice pool penalty to most actions based on the distance noise if you control it directly. if you just want to exchange data and give commands, there is no limit. technically, you can even do so from another planet.

Then the question would be What would the spam/static rating be from Mars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DMiller]

Between 4 and 24 minutes, depending on location in orbit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I'd say that was likely "off the chart" in SR noise terms.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Between 4 and 24 minutes, depending on location in orbit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I'd say that was likely "off the chart" in SR noise terms.

Distance, though, and not Spam/Static Noise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Smash]

Perhaps I should give another example of my general question.

1) I am in a desert.
2) I am a rigger with a console and a drone.
3) I have no satcom with me (I was unprepared for the sake of the argument).
4) How far can I control my drone / exchange data / give commandas?

SYL

The rules are abstractions. They way I interpret it is that if you want the bonus it works, if you don't who cares. It's purely a mechanical payoff. assume risk for a bonus or don't.

I kind of think devices just do whatever works best at the time. It uses the matrix if it can, it uses other devices if it can't. The reason that the bonus is always the same is that it's easier than having 50 rules for 50 scenarios. Yes, they are probably meant to work more efficiently when online vs device to device but as the rules are an abstraction it's just averaged at +2.

[DMiller]

Distance, though, and not Spam/Static Noise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

True and since a sat-uplink limits "distance noise" to -5... I guess that's really the answer to the noise to Mars question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)