Dragons between the Fourth World and the Sixth Options

[Sendaz]

Actually rumours are that Alamais was holding out for a pay raise and a third trailer, The Big D had 5 at his peak, before he would let Catalyst use him anymore as a villain for their storyline.

Unfortunately the Devs wouldn't budge and in fact cut him out when he threatened to go on Strike. Lofwyr being the corporate type was the perfect hatchetman for dealing with strikers.

Expect to see more Non-Union Scab Dragons in future novels/adventures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Trismegistus]

Just in time for Eliohann to make his triumphant return to the plot! Coincidence?

There are no coincidences in the Shadowrun metaplot. Only the machinations of those Wacky Great Dragons and their sidekicks, the Immortal Elves.

[Draco18s]

Actually rumours are that Alamais was holding out for a pay raise and a third trailer, The Big D had 5 at his peak, before he would let Catalyst use him anymore as a villain for their storyline.

Unfortunately the Devs wouldn't budge and in fact cut him out when he threatened to go on Strike. Lofwyr being the corporate type was the perfect hatchetman for dealing with strikers.

Expect to see more Non-Union Scab Dragons in future novels/adventures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

http://tessanetting.tumblr.com/post/47019734549

[Fatum]

I don't know when I pissed in the OP's Cheerios. Im trying to give reasonable explanations for some of his concerns, yet getting vitriol back.

These are explanations that make things more problematic, not less, you see.

I don't know WHY the dev team decided to kill Alamais, but it happened. I don't think it was a necessary act, because (as I said) nobody really cared about him or GeMiTo.

We differ here principally. In my opinion, having a lot of barely covered material in a system is an incredible boon, since it leaves more levy for the GMs to build campaigns as they see fit. You don't care about GeMiTo? That's perfectly fine, but this is no reason to remove it as a chance for someone else to build a campaign with a focus they want.
All of my favourite settings, be it Shadowrun or Planescape, are designed this way. Now, instead of vague half-truths on the deals of dragons, we get next to first-hand reports on Dragon Councils.

I've heard stories about D&D groups sending cattle ahead of the group to set off traps. That was Alamais' full reason for hiring mercs. Die first, so I don't have to. Does a group care if they kill some of the cattle later when the cows are in the way? Nope.

While the cows are still in a corridor full of traps? Yeah, they are - they care for any instruments as long as they haven't outlived their usefulness. Mercs locked in combat on your side obviously haven't.

As far as the Rites go, well yeah, those should have been accurately done. But it's been well Over a decade since Shadowrun could officially follow Earthdawn stuff. It's probable that the writers don't feel the need to pore over ED stuff for accuracy anymore. Personally, I think that's tragic, but I get it.

My perceptions differ a bit in that I can't see the authors poring over SR stuff for accuracy, either, but I get your point.

All in all, if you have a high level team who wants to kill a Great, this is the only time they will ever have the chance.

My problem with that is simple: it bends the believability of the setting something wild just to give the players such a chance, but at the same time, that chance is completely unrealistic. I mean, just look at even Storm Front's writing: while dying, Alamais casually turns half a dozen runners into paste with a single swipe. How are you involving your PCs with this? The Great is not to attack them? It's ridiculous, unrealistic, and gives no sense of involvement. The Great is to attack them? I hope they have a lot of Edge to burn.

[Kot]

There's a lot of material on Alamaise in the Earthdawn Third Edition Gamemaster's Companion. Let me quote a little:

His arrogance is the key to understanding Alamaise’s nature. He is assured of his superiority and righteousness. No matter what mistakes he might make, Alamaise will never admit to them — but he will learn from them. Nothing scratches under his scales worse than his own flaws, and he roots out any such imperfections as quickly and ruthlessly as he would dispatch an impetuous Namegiver.

Yeah, he's so silly there... In Earthdawn sourcebooks whenever he appears his arrogance is only outmatched by his power and striving for improvement. So getting killed like that, and even acting so dumb must mean he was brain damaged, or something. And as to how Alachia has beaten him - she had his Pattern Item, which he invested into the Wyrmwood. And in ED he was so angry and vengefull because the elves corrupted his forest with the Ritual of Thorns, and that cut him of from any power he invested in it, and significantly damaged any chance of getting it back.

As for Dragonspeach in ED, remember that the dragon that narrates Creatures of Barsaive - Vasdenjas, the Master of Secrets, the Terrible, the Eater of Cities, called Talespeaker by dragonkind, is a meddlesome gossip and storyteller, something akin to a dragon troubadour, and a high-circle Illusionist. Mimic Voice is a low ranked Talent that could allow him to speak. Or he could use a first circle Illusionist spell to cast a voice. He IS that vain and sympathetic to the Namegivers. I hate them for killing him off, it wasn't even in style, as Dunkelzahn/Mountainshadow did.

P.S. That isn't made up. It's all from FASA material*. You know, when both games were developed by the same company, and the canon was interwoven. The dragons in ED are taken from SR, obviously, and developed into characters along lines established by Shadowrun books.

* RedBrick didn't make any new material worth mentioning. They just refurbished the old fluff and fixed the rules. As CGL was doing, before they decided to butcher the setting. It's still wiggling, though that might be the maggots...

[Fatum]

Vasdenjas specifically says that a dragon can speak the languages of other Namegivers, just finds that hard(er than using Dragonspeech). It's on p.19 in Dragons, but my pdf of it is copy-protected.

[Kot]

Our natural magic allows us to speak aloud, but the dragon mouth, tongue and throat were not designed for the use of your words. For us, the mouth is better used as a place to put food, or produce fire. We have natural vocalizations of our own, but they are usually limited to hunting, battle and mating. Primal sounds to conbey primal emotions. Not proper things used to convey thoughts or ideas.

I typed that in, my Dragons PDF is all legal too. I hope it clears any doubts about dragons not speaking as we do, with the use of vocal cords. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)