(I ask your forgiveness if any of the questions I'm about to ask have been discussed already, can't really find them).
So, I've been reading the (unprinted) Earthdawn book on the dragons, and I have a few questions.

1) The Great Dragon to write the first part of the book, Vasdenjas, angrily denies that wyvers are adolescent dragons, when the scribe points out that the description of the latter (feral reptiles with a single pair of legs) fits the former perfectly. Has it been established anywhere if Vasdenjas was lying (I'd say it's very possible minding that he lied that dragons can't produce offspring paring with metahumans)?

2) The lifecycle of a dragon is described as follows: hatchling (200 years), adolescent (50 to 100), adult (2000), great. Does that mean that no hatchling born in the Sixth World has matured? Similarly, does that mean that any adult dragons were born well into the Forth World, and hibernated through a downcycle?

3) Dragons of each region are said to have a Loremaster in the Fourth Era. Is that to mean that the Sixth had dragon globalization happen, with memory crystals from around the world brought together and entrusted to first Dunkelzahn and later others?

4) How can dragonic lifecycle function in the Sixth World?
A hatchling requires two hundred years to mature into an adolescent, during that time he can be unstable and dangerous. While I understand that in a primitive society like Barsaive hatchlings could remain unseen, in the Sixth World next to every pair of eyes has a camera built in: where are the hatchlings?
An adolescent spends fifty to a hundred years a bestial killer. Unless wyverns are dragons, where are the adolescents, and how do they survive?
Each adult dragon requires a lair, and they're said to be extremely territorial. Given that the least populated places are already taken up by the Greats, where do the adult dragons establish their lairs, and how do they survive given that they can't really establish hunting grounds?

5) Why are the dragons so comfortable with metahuman civilization? I mean, imagine bringing a medieval peasant into today's world, what a shock that'd be for him; and dragons spent dozens to hundreds of human lifetimes in a society with a largely medieval tech level. Why don't they refer to metahumans as Namegivers, for that matter, or use Fourth World magical terminology? Why has none of them mentioned the Namegiver races that didn't make it into the Sixth World?

6) What's with Alamais and Sirrurg? If they're so bestial and willing to dine on metahumans as Storm Front paints them to be, why didn't they satisfy that need in the Fourth World (dying well before reaching the status of Greats, most likely)? Is there a reason Lofwyr did not issue a formal challenge to Alamais, nor perform a Rite of Challenge with him at all, instead using pawns for an intraspecies conflict? Why did he challenge Alamais at all, for that matter? Why were there no proper Rites of Death, such as burning the body?

My muzzle will forever remain silent on this. :3

(Serious: on 2, you would have to be correct. On 5, you have to realize that dragons are Einsteinian smart: just because they are naturally territorial doesn't mean they can focus their efforts carving out a different kind of territory, say...the complete subjugation of the Marketing department)

The main point of surprise for me in (5) is that no dragon has apparently blurted something like "so where are the obsidemen?" to metahumans, making the existence of the extinct Namegiver races common knowledge.

As for being Einsteinian smart: despite what the dragons themselves say on their vastly superior intellect, apparently Greats are not smart enough not to attack their own metahuman minions during a combat.

But Dragons we're around in an Age before Namegivers. They saw (maybe created) all of the Young Races come into existence. They're probably familiar with where the magic level should be before Obsidimen & T'Skrang start popping up.

It seems to me that not all GDs adapted to the 6th World very well. Lofwyr and Dunklezahn jumped in, but most sat around and rubbed their sleepy eyes for a few decades. Alamais, as a Dragon Supremacist, had zero concern for his cannon fodder, and no discipline for the War that Goldensnout brought his way.

I'm actually concerned as to Dragon mating. These are THE Apex Predator, lay clutches of 4 eggs, and live forever. In about 200 years, what will all of these adolescent dragons eat without stripping the land?

Actually, if their own creation myth is to be believed, all Namegivers were all created roughly at the same time. Dragons earlier than others, but not significantly.

I guess that depends largely on what we presume the numbers of Great Dragons to be. I mean, Barsaive alone is said to have a dozen of them, so the world must have many more. At the same time, we only know about a dozen Greats playing significant roles in metahuman society - but they got into it at roughly the same time as Golden Snout and Far Scholar.

For what it's worth, the vast majority of dragons are aware of their supremacy to Young Races, that doesn't drive them to actively sabotage their own war effort.

This actually highlights the questions posed above: how did Alamais survive to adolescence, if he lacks discipline; why did Lofwyr bring him a war; and why did he bring a war instead of a proper challenge like he did with Nachtmeister.

Isn't there some evidence that Dragon's are actually not native to earth. Like they traveled here (probably through the metaplanes) from somewhere else, possibly to hide from the horrors. I think that's why there are dragon bones on Mars.

Being a genius and being a good General are not necessarily the same thing. As it stands, he didn't play we'll with others in the Fourth World, why would he change now?

And to a Dragon, most of them woke up thinking they could go about their business on Dragon Time. A notable few got involved in metahuman affairs quickly, but most Greats sit around tying up loose ends from a previous Age and fortifying their territory.

Uh-huh, because it takes a good general to not directly attack your own forces. Wanna bet a conscripted NCO with half a year of experience knows better than this?

Alamais did play well with others in the Fourth World. As a matter of fact, he did in the Sixth, as well, see Dragons of the Sixth World. He has never trusted his metahuman pawns, yes, but there's an abyss between controlling your pieces tightly and removing them from the board yourself.

Most of them? Who, exactly? Doll-Maker, who took over a city across the world from Barsaive? Golden Snout maybe? Orange Queen? The game setup is radically different this time around.

First of all, you have to remember that it's difficult for the writers to use ED fluff. This leads to some interesting decisions and personally, I'm rather sure that a few people who wrote about dragons never read this gem of a sourcebook, since it's not required anymore.

Second, the connection was originally loose, which is why you don't have Hestaby mentioned in ED and Lung and Lofwyr only in later publications by name.

Third, a lot of things happened between the age of heroes in which ED is set, and the hibernation.
There are reasons why Dunkelzahn woke up near Lake Louise and not in the Caucasus, but we're unlikely to get to know them. Offgame, probably a question of convenience, ingame a mystery.

Now, to answer your questions as good as I can. I'm not Bobby Derie, but I've read a lot about the link between ED and SR. Hopefully it'll be helpful.

1.) ED sourcebboks are about as vague as SR ones are, so that GMs ca decide on themselves what is truth and what not. This beung said, I think Vasdenjas lied and Wyvern are the feral part of dragon adolescence. He probably did this to protect his race, whose relation to namegivers was often bloody, with active enemies like Thera.
Wyvern would be easy to kill for dedicated hunters, as they are no longer under the protection of a guardian.

2.) Correct on both counts. And if I remember correctly, there were no mentions of dragon babies in SR books. Every adult cocooned before the downcycle, and it is likely that wyvern were forcefully hibernated. Also, iirc, the dragon life cycle is a complete mystery for the people of the sixth world and no eggs have been spotted either, with the exception of some rumours about Madagascar (see Cyberpirates).

3.) Unknown, but likely. Vasdenjas was Barsaive's loremaster later, until he got killed, when Mountainshadow (Dunkelzahn) took it over (I think it was him, but I only skimmed that book).
However, during the downcycle, a lot of dragons, and probably even some Greats were hunted and killed by unknown assailants (agents of Denairastas, who is rumored to be the final master of the Black Lodge or blood magic users from horror cults are the main suspects) which is one of the reasons for Sirrurg's attack on that commercial flight and his descent into war crimes.
On this basis it's entirely possible that with modern communication and the reduced number of dragons in the world only a single loremaster remained.

4.) re: lifecycle
No hatchlings yet, wyvern were probably hibernated. Adult dragons could pop up at any time basically, as could hatchlings. There must be some eggs around in the care of the Greats.

re: lairs
Adult dragons sometimes take up lairs in the territory of a great dragon. This can lead to a sort of vassal-liege relationship. The sixth world is arguably smaller than the fourth in terms of wilderness, but it's still a pretty big place. Some areas have gone feral again and a lot of people died to VITAS, so that shouldn't be too big of a problem.

5.) Dragons are aware of the quirks of metahumanity, especially their short lives. They can make allies or enemies, so it's probably good practice to clam up for a while after hibernation to see what's what. Dunkelzahn was not popular for telling so much among his fellows, but he was a firm believer in the power of knowledge. So firm, in fact, that he saw the most of his wealth and hoard in his accumulated information. Fellow dragons acknowledged this fact with the moniker Far-Scholar. And even he did not share a lot more than a few commonplace tidbits designed to establish good relations between metahumanity and dragonkind. Not even his most trusted servants and drakes were told all.
Dragons have been through at least one downcycle before and probably witnessed what a few thousand years without magic can do to information, and there may very well exist some pact of non-interference in that regard.
Dragons are very guarded in general, so it's entirely plausible to first look what the namegivers know, and then use their terminology. They are also aware that obsidimen only show up later in the cycle, as do Ts'krang and Windlings.

6.) Sirrurg was much less involved in the fourth world, as was Alamaise. One lived in a jungle, the other was in hiding after getting his tail kicked by his immortal elf offspring.
Sirrurg usually ate visitors and didn't take active part in society, neither dragon nor metahumanity. This changed with him getting wind of the downcycle hunting and he took a more active role according to his view of dragons as THE apex predator.
Alamaise post petty terrorism is just bullshit writing of people who don't know his background very well (or at all), in my opinion.
Lofwyr had no need to challenge him in the fourth world after having kicked him from his territory. Big L doesn't kill dragons lightly though, even Nachtmeister had to spit in his soup for several decades before being made dead.

The only reason I have to doubt this is how clumsily he lied about it.

Aren't the Denairastas dead, as well as the Outcast?

Has modern communication really changed much for the dragons? They could communicate via astral, spirit or drake messengers, with memory stones if need be, that doesn't seem all that worse...

Well, people died to VITAS, but most countries have their populations comparable or larger than what they have today. I mean, I can imagine there being enough space for a few dragons, even with corrupted astral and whatnot figured in, but given that hatchlings need a few days worth of travel around the lair to roam freely, I start kinda wondering.

While I understand all that, it seems like a rather stupid error to take on a whole metahuman army alone, especially given the fate of Feuerschwinge. I can't quite imagine that working out in the Fourth World, either.

I was referring to the Sixth World challenge that ended in Alamais' death. I could see them having a stern talk, maybe even gathering a Council to decide on the way they want to interact with metahumanity (and thus postulating the rules the breaking of which would be criminal), but for the kind of duel that does not even involve the proper Rites I'm just not seeing a reason.

Not that I remember. The Outcast was ... Well, cast out of dragon society, much like Hestaby, but for way better reasons. Namely, he kept on producing offspring with mortals even after Alamaise's bad precedence. Which is another reason why I think what I think about Storm Front's dragon civil war.
I don't remember reading about his demise, but it's possible. The theory is, that he or one of his longlived brood are behind the Black Lodge.


Good point. Maybe there were several societies during the fourth world and they just decided to band together more closely after being so much reduced in number.
This could have started as early as the Therans killing Icewing's mate.
In the end it's just not known and a matter of us trying to reconcile conflicting sources.


Hatchlings don't fly as fast.
A few dozen kilometers of wilderness shouldn't be too difficult to find.


Feurschwinge had just woken up, and no experience at all with modern weaponry and fighter jets. She probably hadn't had enough time to prepare her usual magical contingencies or summon spirits. She woke up, found herself immensely pissed (and maybe confused, see Rhonabwy or Celedyr's good morning rampage) that someone had dared to intrude on her territory and decided to remedy that situation. Suddenly missiles. And even then she didn't die properly.
Sirrurg was smart enough to not immediately rampage inside a nation's sovereign air space and has had a few decades since his first attack to bring his contingencies up to speed.
Even the Therans during the fourth world needed several behemoth airships with the equivalent of a giant army of adepts, with megaton range magical weaponry to kill Yuichotol, and they were arguably more able to do something against a dragon than the Azzies. And they lost a lot during this attack.


Oh, I misunderstood.
I ignore the Storm Front situation as best as I can
I mostly agree with your thoughts on this.

Yeah, that blends really well with Alamais' fate in the Sixth Era.

I'm not too strong on ED lore (actually, incredibly weak, to be fair), so I could as well be remembering this from some campaign log I read.

Well, far as I understand, dragon societies used to be racially segregated, with the Earth Dragons in Barsaive, the Leviathans in the oceans, the Air Dragons in Cathay, and the Fire Dragons in Americas. Apparently, they've lost enough between the end of ED sourcebooks and the beginning of SR to have no choice but forming a unified society, despite the difference in cultural backgrounds.

These are a few days of a Namegiver's travel.

CGL's treatment of metaplot really leaves me little choice but ignoring the new edition in what comes to fluff (and I won't say anything about the crunch, for everything that needed to be said has been).

Still hatching, maybe? Assuming that the old eggs did not survive the hibernation, the youngest ones would be 60 years old, i.e. nothing in dragon terms.


Dragons only speak through interpreters, those might very well act as a "filter" which translates the draconic thoughts into modern-day terminology

Loremaster title goes to whoever gets the memory crystal of the previous loremaster after a proper Rite of Succession. As far as we know, the tradition would allow one or several dragons to "unify the belts" as I usually put it, in the late Fourth Age, by travelling the world to win the rite every time a loremaster died.

Well, technically, they never did. "Namegivers" is how FASA books translated into English some Throalic word that would predate even the proto-indo-european language. "Humanity" wasn't a word then (it seems to derive, through latin, from a word that would translate as "earthlings"). Besides, if the Namegivers went to adopt a name to collectively describe them, it somewhat makes sense for the dragons to acknowledge and use it.

What does survive the hibernation and what doesn't seems like a tricky question. Apparently there must be some rites for that...

Hm, ED dragons are capable of speech. Besides, don't only Greats consistently use interpreters, seeing how these are as much PR people as anything?
The point is, a dragon has to establish contact with metahumanity before he even finds an interpreter, so it's rather puzzling how their never let the existence of previous Namegivers slip in the process.


Well, minding that ensuring decent succession is one of the obligations of a loremaster, I get the impression only the Rite of Succession (with Rite of Challenge liberally applied as needed) wouldn't be enough, there should be conscious decision.

Well, they're Namegivers because they give Names. Vasdenjas specifically explains that dragons aren't only Name-givers, but also Name-makers, so the conceptions of their own culture should not be all that different in that regard.

In Earthdawn, Dragons are pretty much stated as being from a previous Age. So they got to see the Namegiver Races grow, if they decided to watch. And Alamais(e) is explicitly stated as being a liner with no allies, even neglecting Dragon Councils.

Now, as far as the 6th World Greats, I maintain that most GDs are focused primarily on their physical territories. Aden is concerned with the Middle East, Hualpa is buried in Amazonia, Mujaji in Azania, Rhonabwy in Wales, andthe three Easterns are fighting over various parts of the PacRim. Oh, and Ghostwalker carved out Denver, and pretty much focused all of his time on that and Denver issues (like Zebulon).

Now, on to the other GDs. Obviously,Lofwyr and Dunklezahn took to things like wildfire. Arleesh seems to care solely about destroying dangerous artifacts, Sirrurg is bent on vengeance, and Hestaby is pretty foolish without Big D leading her steps. She actually didn't get involved with anything until after Dunkie died, so it's arguable that without his influence. Outside of Lofwyr and Dunklezahn, only Celedyr is interested in carving out any corporate territory, and he showed up incredibly late to the game.

So, with my take on Dragons out of the way, let's focus on Alamais again. He may be brilliant, but he isn't SMART. pick the smartest person you can think of. Einstein was already mentioned, let's use him. Put Einstein in charge of an army. See how he does.

Alamaise consistently doesn't act according to his crunchy attributes.
He's the stupid jock of dragon society and its whipping boy.

Let's reiterate:
The first thing we get to know about him is that he's a) brood brother to Lofwyr and b) moved to northern Barsaive after getting kicked out of Vasgothia by the same Lofwyr.
Lofwyr, Alamaise, Icewing and Mountainshadow are arguably the oldest and thus strongest dragons around, the latter two even children of a virtual dragon deity.

Alamaise shows up in Barsaive, pouts for a few years, then plants a tree and decides to have kids. Unfortunately, he's also a sexual deviant and has said kids with elves, thus inadvertently creating the immortal elf bloodline. With his newly acquired w...omen, he opens up his own club, presumably black jack included, and calls it Wyrmwood.
He turns out not to be such a good father, what with him being busy with w(h)ining, wenching and gambling and using his kids to keep up the supply.
They decide to kick him out, and being first generation magical dragon sailor girls, one of his daughters succeds, giving him a nasty scar.
He is kicked out from his own territory AGAIN.

Then, he goes to a dragon council to demand total war. The council points and laughs, but promptly forbids having children with the lesser races, because that turned out pretty bad for one of them. (Denairastas later ignores this decree and is ostracized, but not killed).

Alamaise decides to vanish and in ED he is mostly described as being not there and impossible to find. In short: he pouts.

Fast forward to his accomplishments in the sixth world.
He finances a racial supremacy policlub. They turn out to be rather insignificant apart from a few terrorist actions.
He tries to use them to spit in his brother's dinner, but fails and gets wtf-vehcicle-laz0red into hiding ...again.
Dunkelzahn acknowledges his going into hiding by promptly sending him a fruitcake for christmas ... Every. Fucking. Year.
Only to rub in that he knows where Alamaise is and that he can find him. It's basically a 'you suck, dude' gift.
To add insult to injury, Dunkelzahn's foundation keeps this shit up even after his death, just for lulz.

He fails miserably at his bid for the position of Loremaster.
He then tries to open another club for the cool guys and .... For whatever reason succeeds in an inane book, only to get killed off.

Alamaise has always been a joke, and Einstein would very likely have done a better job at commanding an army. But the issue is moot, because the whole premise is stupid in my eyes.

All in all, I'd say that's fair. But the characterization on Alamaise is pretty consistent, regardless of how intelligent his stats say he is.

The problem with incredibly intelligent adversaries is that they need emotional flaws. That's the only exploit we have in the narrative. Or, we can half-ass it like what happened to Thrawn in the Star Wars books.

Hate to break it to y'all, but there won't ever be a way to kill a Great that fulfills all expectations. Storm Front was probably one of the better ways that you could involve a group, and it fits with the personalities and tactics of the Draconic players.

The thing is, for all his blundering idiocy there's absolutely no reason why he should have had an army, consisting of dragons or otherwise, in the first place. As in: no reason to off him, because reasons.

I agree that the emotional narrative is the important plot point here, but that doesn't make the warporn chapter any less dull, nor the eating of a sprawl any more plausible.

Hate to break it to ya, but Nachtmeister's death was pretty well done, and years in the making.
Storm Front's adventure ideas are basically either a) do stupid jobs for minimum money, just to get killed because you chose the evil guys, or b) jump on the choo choo train and shoot at a great dragon for your troubles.

Not a whole lot of interesting storytelling if you're not a group with high power characters who do this sort of shit as the culmination of their campaign, in my opinion.
I prefer the street level instead of watching plot npcs duke it out.

That's totally fair. I would never put my PCs in that mess.

And, to be even MORE fair, neither GeMiTo or Alamais are on anyone's radar. It was a wrap up for a plot point that nobody cared about. Now we just have to kill all of the other GDs that nobody cared about.

Can we start with Hualpa?

Dragons who aren't smart, cunning and deceitful don't get past hatchling stage, much less to the Great Dragon status.
As for Einstein, you write as if modern combat is some kind of an art. But at most levels, commanders have prepared solutions to choose from in the tactical manuals. A six year old playing toy soldiers with his friend knows better than shoot his own guys. A highschooler who's read a couple of regiment-level tactical manuals knows that undefended minefields and ambushes failing to use the resulting panic are not the tools for successful positional defense. You don't need Einstein for any of this.

1) THOR shot, or multiple, if needed.
2) Face-to-face duel with another dragon.
Otherwise, there is precious little reason to kill a Great Dragon at all. Especially just up and doing this. These are elders of the dragon race we're talking about here, they're thousands of years old, you can't just kill them off willy-nilly. Especially if you're another of the Greats.
There is exactly zero reason to involve your runners in direct confrontation with a Great Dragon (I am surprised I have to spell this out). Actually, "never deal with a dragon" is a truism for a reason: even being part of the dragonic intrigues can be deadly. Facing down one of the top world's magicians with thousands of years of experience, massive amounts of artifacts, and spirit help as needed is just plain out suicide for anyone. "Involving the group" in direct combat with a Great Dragon makes as much sense as involving it in a direct combat with a nuclear bomb. Less, actually, since bombs are not hyper-intelligent.


I find myself agreeing with you throughout this thread mostly, but this I agree with especially, particularly with the last part.

Ooooh but you can also get to rob a Great Dragon's lair! Because there are no minions or traps, and runners can be trusted with these kinds of jobs!

Again, agreed. This is just absolutely over the head of even high-level runners, and the whole runner army doesn't make any sense outside of being a sad excuse for trying to get PCs involved.


Let's get rid of half the megacorps, while we're at it. And half the executives at the remaining ones. And all the Immortal Elves. And all the iconic characters. And 90% of countries. They just complicate things, while nobody really cares about them.

Dragons are incapable of vocal speech, but they are able to communicate telepathically with other beings in their line of sight through Dragonspeech (SR4A)
Lesser dragons may not have a default speaker on call, but when they want to make a phone call they need somebody who does it for them.

Another idea: Dragons always play their cards close to the chest, maybe it's SOP for them to first mindprobe lesser races before giving an answer


Inadvertently? The whole point of the exercise was to create servants which don't die in the blink of an (dragon) eye and maybe manage to pull their weight. Turns out people don't like being bred as servants, shucks...

I know. ED dragons are specifically said to be capable of vocal speech, even if they dragonspeech much more comfortable to use.

Or they can just shapeshift.

They are the great mystery of any age. There is plenty of information of the lifecycle of dragons but not much on Dragons actually dying of old age....

I don't know when I pissed in the OP's Cheerios. Im trying to give reasonable explanations for some of his concerns, yet getting vitriol back.
I don't know WHY the dev team decided to kill Alamais, but it happened. I don't think it was a necessary act, because (as I said) nobody really cared about him or GeMiTo. He's already established as a Dragon Supremacist, a loner, and more willing to do things based on his passions rather than thinking them out. Alamais views Metahumanity as cattle, no more, no less.
I've heard stories about D&D groups sending cattle ahead of the group to set off traps. That was Alamais' full reason for hiring mercs. Die first, so I don't have to. Does a group care if they kill some of the cattle later when the cows are in the way? Nope.
As far as the Rites go, well yeah, those should have been accurately done. But it's been well Over a decade since Shadowrun could officially follow Earthdawn stuff. It's probable that the writers don't feel the need to pore over ED stuff for accuracy anymore. Personally, I think that's tragic, but I get it.

All in all, if you have a high level team who wants to kill a Great, this is the only time they will ever have the chance. It will be a background event in most campaigns, like Dunklezahn's death or Nachtmeister's. In my campaigns, the Aztlan/Amazonian war is similar. Something on the news, no more. I think that there are much better ideas in Storm Front that I can involve players with.

Actually rumours are that Alamais was holding out for a pay raise and a third trailer, The Big D had 5 at his peak, before he would let Catalyst use him anymore as a villain for their storyline.

Unfortunately the Devs wouldn't budge and in fact cut him out when he threatened to go on Strike. Lofwyr being the corporate type was the perfect hatchetman for dealing with strikers.

Expect to see more Non-Union Scab Dragons in future novels/adventures.

Just in time for Eliohann to make his triumphant return to the plot! Coincidence?

There are no coincidences in the Shadowrun metaplot. Only the machinations of those Wacky Great Dragons and their sidekicks, the Immortal Elves.

http://tessanetting.tumblr.com/post/47019734549

These are explanations that make things more problematic, not less, you see.

We differ here principally. In my opinion, having a lot of barely covered material in a system is an incredible boon, since it leaves more levy for the GMs to build campaigns as they see fit. You don't care about GeMiTo? That's perfectly fine, but this is no reason to remove it as a chance for someone else to build a campaign with a focus they want.
All of my favourite settings, be it Shadowrun or Planescape, are designed this way. Now, instead of vague half-truths on the deals of dragons, we get next to first-hand reports on Dragon Councils.

While the cows are still in a corridor full of traps? Yeah, they are - they care for any instruments as long as they haven't outlived their usefulness. Mercs locked in combat on your side obviously haven't.

My perceptions differ a bit in that I can't see the authors poring over SR stuff for accuracy, either, but I get your point.

My problem with that is simple: it bends the believability of the setting something wild just to give the players such a chance, but at the same time, that chance is completely unrealistic. I mean, just look at even Storm Front's writing: while dying, Alamais casually turns half a dozen runners into paste with a single swipe. How are you involving your PCs with this? The Great is not to attack them? It's ridiculous, unrealistic, and gives no sense of involvement. The Great is to attack them? I hope they have a lot of Edge to burn.

There's a lot of material on Alamaise in the Earthdawn Third Edition Gamemaster's Companion. Let me quote a little:

Yeah, he's so silly there... In Earthdawn sourcebooks whenever he appears his arrogance is only outmatched by his power and striving for improvement. So getting killed like that, and even acting so dumb must mean he was brain damaged, or something. And as to how Alachia has beaten him - she had his Pattern Item, which he invested into the Wyrmwood. And in ED he was so angry and vengefull because the elves corrupted his forest with the Ritual of Thorns, and that cut him of from any power he invested in it, and significantly damaged any chance of getting it back.

As for Dragonspeach in ED, remember that the dragon that narrates Creatures of Barsaive - Vasdenjas, the Master of Secrets, the Terrible, the Eater of Cities, called Talespeaker by dragonkind, is a meddlesome gossip and storyteller, something akin to a dragon troubadour, and a high-circle Illusionist. Mimic Voice is a low ranked Talent that could allow him to speak. Or he could use a first circle Illusionist spell to cast a voice. He IS that vain and sympathetic to the Namegivers. I hate them for killing him off, it wasn't even in style, as Dunkelzahn/Mountainshadow did.

P.S. That isn't made up. It's all from FASA material*. You know, when both games were developed by the same company, and the canon was interwoven. The dragons in ED are taken from SR, obviously, and developed into characters along lines established by Shadowrun books.

* RedBrick didn't make any new material worth mentioning. They just refurbished the old fluff and fixed the rules. As CGL was doing, before they decided to butcher the setting. It's still wiggling, though that might be the maggots...

Vasdenjas specifically says that a dragon can speak the languages of other Namegivers, just finds that hard(er than using Dragonspeech). It's on p.19 in Dragons, but my pdf of it is copy-protected.

I typed that in, my Dragons PDF is all legal too. I hope it clears any doubts about dragons not speaking as we do, with the use of vocal cords.