Has anyone double checked the premade runners?, Especially the editing team of SR5 Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Switch to: Standard Linear+

[Chrome Head]

Here's a "few" mistakes I found:

[ Spoiler ]

Street Samurai p. 112
- Physical Limit is listed as 8 (9), it should be 8

Covert Ops p. 113
- Physical Condition Monitor should be 11, not 10
- Contact with connection 3, Loyalty 5, which is over the limit of 7 total
- Missing a "Notes" for dwarven racial abilities

Occult Investigator p. 114
- Magician listed as a quality

Street Magician p.115
- Social limit should be 8, not 7
- Prejudice (Mild) should be Prejudiced (Biased)

Combat Mage p. 116
- Physical limit should be 5, not 6
- Magician listed as a quality

Brawling Adept p. 117
- Too much karma spent: Skills are at category B (36/5) (attributes are definitely A, with 24 attribute points spent) but actually we see that there are 43 active skill points spent and 5 skill groups, the minimum karma to spend to get to that number in this case is 16 karma (5 skills 1, 1 skill at 2), 10 net karma are spent on qualities, and 5 more karma spent on contacts, I haven’t checked the gear but we already reach 31 karma spent when the limit is 25 at chargen.

Weapons Specialist p. 118
- Social limit should be 5, not 4

Face p. 119
- Physical limit listed as 3, should be 4
- Mental limit listed as 5, should be 6

Tank p. 120
- Physical Condition Monitor should be 14 not 13, taking augmentations into account
- Physical limit listed as 10, his stats would give a 9, his augmented stats would give an 11

Decker p. 121
- Mental limit listed as 6(7), it's actually always 7
- Listed augmentations add up to 0.8E, but essence listed as 5.0
- Missing a "Notes" for dwarven racial abilities

Technomancer p. 122
- Social limit should be 7, not 6
- Init listed as 8+1D6, should be 9+1D6
- Insomnia quality: should mention severity
- Prejudice (vocal) should be Prejudiced (outspoken)

Gunslinger adept p. 123
- Fake SIN rating 5, fake licence rating 5, this goes above availability limit of 12
- Missing a "Notes Natural low light vision" which appears for ex. for the Face p. 119

Drone Rigger p. 124
- Init is listed as 7+1D6, but her augmentations (reaction enhancers) brings that up to 7(9)+1D6
- Mental limit should be 6, not 5
- Missing a "Notes Natural low light vision" which appears for ex. for the Face p. 119

Smuggler p. 125
- Two attributes are hard-maxed: intuition 5 and charisma 4
- Essence is 4.9, yet he's got a control rig rating 2 which costs 2E, not to mention the other augmentations
- 12 points of knowledge and language skills, attributes allow for 14
- He's got 29 skills and no skill group, that's less than C priority (28/2) allows. We know that we have Resources A, Race B for Troll (0), he's got no magic (E) and 15 points of attributes (priority D is 14), so it clearly seems that skills are at C.

Sprawl Ganger p. 126
- Init listed as 8+1D6, but it should be 7+1D6
- All 3 limits should be 1 more than what's written (rounding error?)

Bounty Hunter p. 127
- Physical limit should be 9, not 7
- Social limit should be 5, not 4

Recurring presentation inconsistency: limits and init are sometimes like this 10 + 3D6, and sometimes like 8(10) + 1(3)D6.

In short, we find mistakes everywhere. That’s right, for every single premade runner in the book, there is at least one (sometime tiny) mistake.

A lot of them are calculation errors in derived stats (which I already find significant, especially considering how often this occurs) and other minor things. Some errors are quite serious, like spending 31 karma, going over the availability limit, having two attributes hard-maxed, grossly miscalculating essence, and having a contact with more than 7 points total. I haven’t gone through gear and karma spent/priorities/essence correctness in a lot of detail, but I suppose we could find many more problems there as well.

Some general remarks:
- Out of 16 characters, 7 have the racial minimum in edge, 4 have minimum + 1, and only 5 have more than that, with none having 6 or more edge.
- While edge is a dump stat for the designers, none of the pre-made runners have a 1 in any physical or mental attribute
- On the other hand, only one character (gunslinger adept) has a 2 in willpower, and a majority (9 of 16) have more than 3
- Out of 8 characters with augmentations, 2 have only one augmentation (in both cases a cyberarm), 3 have cyberarms (but none have other cyberlimbs), 4 have cybereyes (none have cyberears)
- The decker has a low-end deck (device rating 2) which I find uncharacteristic of the archtype

What do you guys think?

[xsansara]

True and mostly pointed out by others as well.

Having both illegal and severely sub-optimal example chars in the first-print core book is a time-honoured tradition in SR. Excuses range from "In your face MinMaXXers!" to "Oooops".

BTW, having a 1 in either a mental or physical attribute is considered a no-go by a lot of players and GM (Edge is apparently fine), including many on this board. I do understand not wanting to make a stand in that particular emotional dispute. Just post a character with maybe even two attributes at 1 on the board to get a taste of that particular flame war (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It is really about two different styles of play, sort of like street-grit vs. super spies. You will see the dichotonomy represented in certain part of the rule book (example chars, low class lifestyle and limits for the street-grit people, the Corporate SIN disadvantage, DocWagon and mystic adepts for the super spies). Also in the discussions on the board. In SR4, street gritters used to complain about the inflated DP in the supplements. Now in SR5, ironically, super spies complain about mystic adepts, because it is so over-the-top OP that your whole troupe will make one (this actually happened).

[ElFenrir]

Actually, you're allowed to spend up to 50 Karma in Chargen. Check the book-you have 25 base Bonus Karma, and can have *up to* 25 points of Negative qualities, and take *up to* 25 points of Positive Qualities. So you can have:

-A runner with 25/25 Positive/Negative qualities, keeping their 25 Bonus Karma
-A runner with 25 points of Negative qualities, getting 50 Bonus Karma
-A runner with 25 points of Positive Qualities, with no Bonus Karma


That being said, yes there are still mistakes(the Adept still goes over Karma spent since the +/- qualities even out, for example.)

I might be able to explain the Limit errors if I had to guess-they may have been round down at one point in time, but were changed(IMO, for the better) to 'round up' after stuff went to print.

[Ard3]

There are some big errors. I calculated that street samurai has 639400 NY worth of stuff. Combat mages has, If I calculated correctly, resources C with only 12600 or so NY used. Also Race E, one special attribute point, and still edge 2. Magic A gives 6 already so it cannot go anywhere else.
Brawling adept has Pain Resistance(1) quality which doesnt exist. I assume it means High Pain Tolerance(1), but for first timer looking at book it may not be obvious. And now I noticed that there is adept power with same name. Brawling Adept has PP = Magic before calculating it though. In either case it is a mistake.
In a lot of places there is gear, quality or something else which has multiple ratings with no indication which one character has. Insomnia on TM, spell focus on street shaman, bugscanner on face. Or it is incorrectly labeled like that TM Prejudice.

[DWC]

A bunch of things in character creation were changed after the example characters were made, and they never got a final pass to make sure all those mechanical changes had been integrated. There are a bunch of players who've sat down and pointed out all the issues with the example characters so now it's just a matter of waiting to see whether they get fixed along with all the other Errata items when the 3rd Printing is done.

[xsansara]

I just checked the German book. Seems like on first glance most of your findings were corrected, so consider them errata'd.

Still, the weird build choices, such as the DR 2 deck for the decker have not been changed.

[Chrome Head]

I just checked the German book. Seems like on first glance most of your findings were corrected, so consider them errata'd.

Still, the weird build choices, such as the DR 2 deck for the decker have not been changed.

That's good to hear! Thanks. Have they rebuilt the smuggler (more or less completely)? Do we still have a picture of a troll for the human combat mage (who has no illusion spells to justify that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )?

[Medicineman]

Yes ,but the Combat mage now IS a Troll (not a Human anymore)

He who dances like a Troll
Medicineman