[SR3 and +]Weapons and bullets Options

[sk8bcn]

Ok. A silvergun has flechettes as Ammo. But which weapon can take which ammos?

I tend to think that you can't exchange that easily regular ammos with flechettes but regulars with Explosives or APDS tough.

Am-I wrong?

[DrZaius]

Ok. A silvergun has flechettes as Ammo. But which weapon can take which ammos?

I tend to think that you can't exchange that easily regular ammos with flechettes but regulars with Explosives or APDS tough.

Am-I wrong?

I have always ruled that sliverguns were flechette only. Shotguns can take either flechette or slug (regular) rounds. All other guns can take any ammo BUT flechette. Hope that helps clear it up.

-DrZ

[Larsine]

silvergun

Slivergun, not silvergun. I know players who had this wrong for many years.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I have always ruled that sliverguns were flechette only. Shotguns can take either flechette or slug (regular) rounds. All other guns can take any ammo BUT flechette. Hope that helps clear it up.

-DrZ

And why, exactly, cannot other weapons use flechette? I have used Shot rounds for my Pistol (Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum) for years - They make excellent Snake Loads...

[Bigity]

Way I always read it was Sliverguns were flechette only, but other handguns/rifles (aka anything not a LMG classification and up) could use whatever.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Way I always read it was Sliverguns were flechette only, but other handguns/rifles (aka anything not a LMG classification and up) could use whatever.

Indeed...

[DrZaius]

And why, exactly, cannot other weapons use flechette? I have used Shot rounds for my Pistol (Super Blackhawk in .44 Magnum) for years - They make excellent Snake Loads...

Real life =/= shadowrun. That said, I'm sure you could rule whatever you'd like and have normal guns use flechette. I personally have shied away from that because of the choke rules, which I'm not sure how you would apply to weapons that weren't shotguns or specific flechette weapons.

-DrZ

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Real life =/= shadowrun. That said, I'm sure you could rule whatever you'd like and have normal guns use flechette. I personally have shied away from that because of the choke rules, which I'm not sure how you would apply to weapons that weren't shotguns or specific flechette weapons.

-DrZ

Again, why would you apply choke rules to anything but Shotguns, which are the only guns in the system that use those rules?

[DrZaius]

Again, why would you apply choke rules to anything but Shotguns, which are the only guns in the system that use those rules?

There's no need to be so argumentative and combative. I literally just said "This is how I've done it". Other than demonstrating your superior knowledge of firearms, what precisely are you adding to the discussion by continuing this line of thought?

-DrZ

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

There's no need to be so argumentative and combative. I literally just said "This is how I've done it". Other than demonstrating your superior knowledge of firearms, what precisely are you adding to the discussion by continuing this line of thought?

-DrZ

Asking questions is being Argumentative? Who New. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Apparently I am simply asking you WHY you think that way. Your comments up to this point are not very coherent on your position, and read like you are making statements of fact. Statements which are not accurate. So, I WANTED TO KNOW WHY YOU THOUGHT THAT WAY...

[JesterZero]

Holy cow. Mark your calendars. On this day in history I found myself in wholehearted agreement with TJ. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Seriously though, as far as I know, it breaks down like this:

• Sliverguns can only use flechette. Hence Slivergun.
• Shotguns can use flechette/shot or slug rounds. They are also the only category of weapon that has a choke setting (which only matters for flechette/shot).
• All other guns that don't explicitly use some sort of proprietary round can use the other various ammo types (which includes flechette).

[Umidori]

The question that is being danced around, I think, is if you use Flechette rounds in, say, a pistol, does it default to a certain "choke" value, inflicting the sort of Dodge Penalty associated with flechette's "spread"?

My assumption would be it's just automatically a Narrow Spread, which modifies the Damage Value and the Armor Penetration, but still only hits a single target and doesn't invoke a Dodge Penalty at all. Naturally you then cannot change to a Medium or Wide spread on anything other than a Shotgun.

~Umi

[Epicedion]

The question that is being danced around, I think, is if you use Flechette rounds in, say, a pistol, does it default to a certain "choke" value, inflicting the sort of Dodge Penalty associated with flechette's "spread"?

My assumption would be it's just automatically a Narrow Spread, which modifies the Damage Value and the Armor Penetration, but still only hits a single target and doesn't invoke a Dodge Penalty at all. Naturally you then cannot change to a Medium or Wide spread on anything other than a Shotgun.

~Umi

Only Shotguns use the rules for choke and spread, only when firing flechettes. Other guns firing flechettes don't use the choke/spread rules, as those rules are explicitly for shotguns firing flechettes.

EDIT: Also, shotguns don't actually fire flechettes. They fire shot rounds, which use the damage rules for flechettes.

[sk8bcn]

Slivergun, not silvergun. I know players who had this wrong for many years.

1st notice for me! But I think the french version has a glitch there.

I'll check to verify but it seems so.

[sk8bcn]

1st notice for me! But I think the french version has a glitch there.

I'll check to verify but it seems so.

ok technically a slivergun is just a worser version of a Predator for rounds, but with a BF mode. And doesn't use choke rules.

Thank you!

[Stahlseele]

The Slivergun WAS originally, a LIGHT PISTOL. An Auto-Pistol.
Modeled after the Needler-Gun of Molly Millions from Gibsons Cyberpunkt Fame of Neuromancer.

[bannockburn]

Is there a specific mention somewhere, that shotguns cannot fire all ammo types?
Because I don't remember one.

Rule of thumb: Every weapon can fire every type of ammunition, unless either the weapon is stated to have a restriction (see: Slivergun, dartguns, etc.) or the ammunition states that it can only be used in certain kinds of weapons (e.g. Dragon's Breath or breaching rounds for shotguns).


So, for me it is:
Slivergun: Flechette only (which makes the whole idea absurd, since you can buy the weapon legally with an availability code of R for SR4, but the ammo is F)
Shotguns: Fire everything, although I have houseruled that you can buy regular ammo either as slugs or shot rounds for the same price (because shot ammo is sure as hell not illegal in my game world, and not even as expensive as flechettes)
Other weapons: The whole shebang, no restrictions, except when those are stated.

[Vagabond Elf]

My take on it is this:

Most weapons can fire any type of round. For these weapons, "Flechette" ammo represents a frangible round like Glazer Safety Ammo ™.

Shotguns can also fire any type of round. However, for a shotgun, "Flechette" represents shot ammo, which uses the flechette rules but has the same cost and availability as regular ammo.

The Slivergun fires a unique needle round, which uses the Flechette rules and costs, but has the same availability as regular ammo. It's also a lot lighter. That's a kludge, but the whole point of needleguns (in any setting) is that one gets high performance against soft targets for less effort than a regular gun firing frangibles.

[Umidori]

ok technically a slivergun is just a worse version of a Predator for rounds, but with a BF mode. And doesn't use choke rules.

Thank you!

Worse?

The Slivergun comes default with an Integral Sound Suppressor, which is very nice, has twice the ammo capacity of a Predator, and actually has superior damage and armor penetration compared to a Predator loaded with Flechette: 8DV + 2 AP, vs. 7D + 4 AP. (And yes, it also has BF capability without modding.)

If you're going to use Flechettes anyway, the Slivergun wins hands down. The downside is you can't use different ammo for different purposes - in particular, you can't swap out to non-lethal rounds.

~Umi

[Stahlseele]

Wasn't Flechette Changed to have a +5AP?
Or was that 'accidentally' de-errataed again?

[Umidori]

It's +5 added to the Predator's base of -1, so a net of +4.

~Umi

[Stahlseele]

ah, i thought it was a flat +5

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

ah, i thought it was a flat +5

Unless you use AP Flechette (+0), which brings the adjustment back to the standard Heavy Pistol of -1 AP.

[Medicineman]

Worse?

The Slivergun comes default with an Integral Sound Suppressor, which is very nice, has twice the ammo capacity of a Predator, and actually has superior damage and armor penetration compared to a Predator loaded with Flechette: 8DV + 2 AP, vs. 7D + 4 AP. (And yes, it also has BF capability without modding.)

If you're going to use Flechettes anyway, the Slivergun wins hands down. The downside is you can't use different ammo for different purposes - in particular, you can't swap out to non-lethal rounds.

~Umi

the Slivergun is quite effective if you want to Stun/KO highly Armored Foes

....oh and a +1 to Bannockburns Post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

with a highly effective Dance
Medicineman

[sk8bcn]

Worse?

The Slivergun comes default with an Integral Sound Suppressor, which is very nice, has twice the ammo capacity of a Predator, and actually has superior damage and armor penetration compared to a Predator loaded with Flechette: 8DV + 2 AP, vs. 7D + 4 AP. (And yes, it also has BF capability without modding.)

If you're going to use Flechettes anyway, the Slivergun wins hands down. The downside is you can't use different ammo for different purposes - in particular, you can't swap out to non-lethal rounds.

~Umi

I'm running the full 2050-2072 era and for now, playing in the 3rd ed era, so my comment was with 3rd ed stats in mind.