Trolls & Ware, 5th ed. Sorry. Options

[Jack VII]

The errata only confuses the issue further.

It really doesn't. The specific reason for the lifestyle increase is listed: "to reflect the costs of adapting everything they use—especially their gear, including cyberware or bioware—to meet their massive physical requirements."

No matter which way you parse that, the cost of modifying any and all gear (easily encompassed by the term "everything") is subsumed by the increased lifestyle cost.

[Patrick Goodman]

The theory was to try and make bookkeeping a little easier, as I recall.

[SpellBinder]

So effectively a troll on the streets ultimately pays less for cyber and gear than the same troll living in a middle lifestyle, since the gear costs aren't modified but lifestyle's supposed to cover the size difference for stuff like cyber and clothing.

Maybe less bookkeeping, but to me it's also less sense.

[Sengir]

So effectively a troll on the streets ultimately pays less for cyber and gear than the same troll living in a middle lifestyle, since the gear costs aren't modified but lifestyle's supposed to cover the size difference for stuff like cyber and clothing.

Maybe less bookkeeping, but to me it's also less sense.

A troll on the streets also pays less for food and suffers no ill effects (neither does a character with high lifestyle become overweight). Lifestyle costs have always been heavily abstracted, and reliant on the fact that players actually want a better life (in other words, play their characters).

I like the rule, it's simple, effective, and the resulting lower lifestyles for trolls reinforce the inequality in the setting.

[Sendaz]

Come on, this isn't hard. The above has been slightly adjusted to note what the lifestyle increase represents. Their gear and cyber do cost more, but for ease of use, it is simply absorbed into their increased lifestyle.

Sure, it doesn't make much sense for a Troll with a Street lifestyle to essentially not pay a premium, but it's an abstraction, so it isn't perfect.

Yeah, but it doesn't really make sense with the first half of the lifestyles as what they are paying doesn't really add toward that supposed premium in any case, and really this is where most of the players will be starting in before they get some runs and cash under the belt.

Life styles
Streets - Free
Squatter - 500
Low -2000

But it is an abstraction, just seems like they would have separated the two...

[Mintro]

Enforce a hospitalization lifestyle for cyber/bio surgery and recovery and it will take care of the cost differential.

[Moirdryd]

I'm seriously not seeing the reason for all the fuss over this. If you don't like the Lifestyle ruling then ignore it and instead use the 50% extra on gear rule, or use the SR3 rulings as they translate perfectly well too. If the abstraction confuses you an instead you want to use the case by case stuff, do so. You can event port in the SOTA expenses rules from previous editions if you want to, if anything thy actually make more sense with some of the themes expressed in SR5 than they did in SR3. You can even apply the Stress and Cyber Maintenence rules and costs too, getting as detailed as you like. The option exists if you want it (and maybe they'll show up in later sourcebooks). But for some folks that flat lifestyle cost mod makes the game simpler and more playable.

Me? I use the SR3 mod numbers (but not for Cyber) because that's what I've always run to and I also like a little bit more book keeping when it comes to my Runner's resources, but I certainly don't mind the SR5 RAW for it.

[Abstruse]

This specific errata was put in place because it said two different things at different places in the rule texts. In one, it says that all gear including cyber costs 50% more. In another, it states lifestyle increases 100%. That's where the original confusion was, and this errata was specifically to state that the lifestyle doubling rule was the correct one, with the 50% increase being from a previous draft.

Sources: Jason Hardy (from an email), Steven "Bull" Ratkovich (Facebook post), and the official errata document.

[Kyrinthic]

I dont think it was a mistake, there are too many changes. Its clearly something that was changed at the last minute. Look at the section that got chopped on page 93:

costs (trolls have a 50 percent gear and Lifestyle cost
increase, dwarfs have a 10 percent increase in gear
costs), the player may choose to increase the cost for
each item picked up at that time to help them track
how much they’ve spent and how much nuyen they
have left. Alternately, they may choose to purchase all
the gear at the base cost, arrive at a subtotal, and then
add in the appropriate cost modifier (10 or 50 percent)
to get the final total.

This was very specific that there was a cost for both gear and lifestyle, and if different from trolls to dwarves. That got chopped as well as the table earlier. I think it was a last minute look and realizing that +50% cost for trolls, combined with the high metatype priority and low cash amounts for low resource priority combine to make a Troll street sam a thing of the past. Not something they want to do with an iconic archetype.

Not sure I like the fix, since now there is basically no cost to get gear refitted to a troll, but its clearly not just a typo being fixed.

[Smash]

Abstraction seems to be a difficult concept.

Me personally, I would have like them to roll licences into lifestyle as well. All this micro-management bores me and 1/2 the time people just ignore it anyway.

[Smash]

A more cynical response I must make.

This change is in response to the following issue:

"OMG my troll technomancer has to take priority A for race AND pay 50% more for wired reflexes 3!#$^? WTF?!"

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Abstraction seems to be a difficult concept.

Me personally, I would have like them to roll licences into lifestyle as well. All this micro-management bores me and 1/2 the time people just ignore it anyway.

Rolling Licenses into SIN would make more sense, and I agree that they should likely be combined with Something (whether that is Lifestyle, SINs or something else)...

[Sendaz]

Especially when you consider that if you got a SIN and use those licensed items in any sort of criminal activity that can be tracked back to you, you can expect to pretty much lose the current lifestyle as you are either now A) Incarcerated or B) On the run so no longer able to stay at that fancy condo you invested in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Especially when you consider that if you got a SIN and use those licensed items in any sort of criminal activity that can be tracked back to you, you can expect to pretty much lose the current lifestyle as you are either now A) Incarcerated or B) On the run so no longer able to stay at that fancy condo you invested in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Indeed...

[RHat]

The issue with rolling it into lifestyle is people who want to have multiple fake SINs set up.

[Smash]

The issue with rolling it into lifestyle is people who want to have multiple fake SINs set up.

Rolling it into sin is probably better.

Just whatever it takes to remove the need to buy 10 licences for each of my 5 SINS.

[Sendaz]

maybe introduce a 'Fake' Lifestyle then for a nominal fraction of the cost as an add on, representing the costs of maintaining the Fake Sin (falsified tax records, 'home address' that leads to a n apartment complex, any appropriate licenses, a shady bank that keeps a mock account complete with 'monthly' expenses making it all seem you are really there, etc) as an ongoing thing.

So you may have your Low SINless 'Real' Lifestyle and a 'Fake' Middle lifestyle citing that you are a security consultant for Rywfol Emwolb Security Ltd, based in Wales, and have a license for that sidearm and cyberware as part of your job.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Rolling it into sin is probably better.

Just whatever it takes to remove the need to buy 10 licences for each of my 5 SINS.

I agree... Set it up as an Aspect of a SIN. Would work so much better in my opinion.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

maybe introduce a 'Fake' Lifestyle then for a nominal fraction of the cost as an add on, representing the costs of maintaining the Fake Sin (falsified tax records, 'home address' that leads to a n apartment complex, any appropriate licenses, a shady bank that keeps a mock account complete with 'monthly' expenses making it all seem you are really there, etc) as an ongoing thing.

So you may have your Low SINless 'Real' Lifestyle and a 'Fake' Middle lifestyle citing that you are a security consultant for Rywfol Emwolb Security Ltd, based in Wales, and have a license for that sidearm and cyberware as part of your job.

Also an awesome Idea... I typically DO that ANYWAY, already, but I would LOVE a discount for such a thing. Especially now with the increased costs associated with a SIN. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)