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[tasti man LH]

So yeah, they're doing the whole Preview thing again leading up to Run and Gun's release.

Preview #1 here.

Is specifically an excerpt from the Armor chapter. And yay for confirmation that it's going to be in full color!

*ducks down from inevitable shit storm*

[Sendaz]

Why?

FFBA still pretty, it's just regular armor now so just doesn't stack like the old days.

Was wondering if they were gonna somehow stuff it into the '+' category but so many people had such a love/hate relationship with FFBA, probably better they let it go this way.

[JesterZero]

"Keep a little bit of realism in mind—no matter what the dice pool says you can hide an assault cannon inside assless chaps."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

I'm guessing there was supposed to be a "not" in that sentence.

Otherwise the mohawk/mirrorshades debate has been decided once and for all.

[Shortstraw]

Oh yay wireless bonuses on clothing. Also 23 hardened armour seems pretty damn good.

[tasti man LH]

Why?

Considering DS's propensity to find the most minor of things to complain about things and to somehow turn it around to how Shadowrun has been ruined forever, I think my wariness is warranted.

...and yeah, the +1 to Social Skills as a wireless bonus is pretty weird even for the other Wireless Bonuses.

On the other hand, yay for the return of extensive Shadowtalk.

Oh, and Plan 9 is back...ish. And apparently, despite being infected by the Sybil virus, JackPoint is totally ok with him still posting...to the point that it's even acknowledged in the ST. Right...

[RHat]

Oh, and Plan 9 is back...ish. And apparently, despite being infected by the Sybil virus, JackPoint is totally ok with him still posting...to the point that it's even acknowledged in the ST. Right...

The difference between 'Jack and Plan 9 (or Riser) in that regard: FastJack could hurt Jackpoint seriously, necessitating his choice to bow out and for the system to be rebuilt. Others, however, don't pose the same threat to the group and are easier to monitor if they're not cut out.

[Lobo0705]

So here is a question.

CUSTOM FIT (STACK)
This characteristic employs all the Custom Fit rules, but in
addition these items can stack with the clothing they are Custom
Fit to be worn over (meaning Custom Fit clothing from the same
maker). The character has to select a specific set of Armored
Clothing to have the piece Custom Fit over. The Custom Fit
combination then allows the character to use either the base
armor or add on the stack bonus for that set of gear.

Ok, so pretty simple - if I have a Mortimer of London Greatcoat Coat (which is a little redundant, but no big deal), and I have that custom fit to me, and to fit over my Mortimer of London Berwick Suit, then my armor rating is 9 for the suit +3 for Greatcoat coat. (obviously I am currently employed as Mr. Manager Manager, for those Arrested Development fans out there). At any rate, as stated in the rule, item that has the Custom Fit (Stack) ability (the Greatcoat) is designed to be worn OVER Custom Fit clothing from the same maker (the Berwick Suit).

Now - Second Skin. It ALSO has the Custom Fit (Stack) ability.

Except - what the heck is this meant to be worn over? It is skin tight, right?

[FuelDrop]

So here is a question.

CUSTOM FIT (STACK)
This characteristic employs all the Custom Fit rules, but in
addition these items can stack with the clothing they are Custom
Fit to be worn over (meaning Custom Fit clothing from the same
maker). The character has to select a specific set of Armored
Clothing to have the piece Custom Fit over. The Custom Fit
combination then allows the character to use either the base
armor or add on the stack bonus for that set of gear.

Ok, so pretty simple - if I have a Mortimer of London Greatcoat Coat (which is a little redundant, but no big deal), and I have that custom fit to me, and to fit over my Mortimer of London Berwick Suit, then my armor rating is 9 for the suit +3 for Greatcoat coat. (obviously I am currently employed as Mr. Manager Manager, for those Arrested Development fans out there). At any rate, as stated in the rule, item that has the Custom Fit (Stack) ability (the Greatcoat) is designed to be worn OVER Custom Fit clothing from the same maker (the Berwick Suit).

Now - Second Skin. It ALSO has the Custom Fit (Stack) ability.

Except - what the heck is this meant to be worn over? It is skin tight, right?

Orthoskin.

[Sendaz]

Considering DS's propensity to find the most minor of things to complain about things and to somehow turn it around to how Shadowrun has been ruined forever, I think my wariness is warranted.

Aye, I can see that.

I did mean the Why in a more 'Moi? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ' way, but forgot to include the smirky smiley. *sigh* too tired last night. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)


Now watch and the errata changes the FFBA to Custom Fit (Stack) just to yank the chain. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/vegm.gif)

Oh, and Plan 9 is back...ish. And apparently, despite being infected by the Sybil virus, JackPoint is totally ok with him still posting...to the point that it's even acknowledged in the ST. Right...

Yeah they discuss this in Storm Front, Plan 9 is an unusual case of the infection and as such so as to not tip their hand so much they are allowing P9 to still roam about.

I suspect in the long run, all of Plan 9 various psychosis may well turn the tables on the Sybil (In Russia P9 Infects YOU!) or at least some sort of hybridization that neither side can expect.

Yes he/she is crazy, but they are our kind of crazy sort of thing....hell may even serve as a bridge between the two sides, the middle-entity so to speak.

[Sendaz]

double post

[apple]

Wireless Bonus: Increase Social Limit by 2
Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Survival Tests (when in terrain addressed with Custom Protection).
Wireless Bonus: Illuminating
Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Social Tests when worn within the appropriate corp.

Why? :-/

SYL

[BlackJaw]

Why? :-/

One of the most annoying things about the Wireless bonuses in SR5 is that they don't get the tad of explanation/justification that might make half of them more palatable, and instead we're left trying to guess why the internet is "magically" providing bonus X.

So here are my guesses:

Wireless Bonus: Increase Social Limit by 2
Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Social Tests when worn within the appropriate corp.

Easiest to explain as Augmented Reality overlays that make the clothing look better, or at least more appropriate for he second one. AR overlays will only work if you broadcast them, so they actually make a nice Wireless Bonus, although if that is explanation, they would need to be viewed by someone with an Imagelink to get the bonus.

Wireless Bonus: Illuminating

It's been established that the Matrix of 2075 includes a bit of wireless power technology, which is a science fiction extrapolation of existing technologies. I guess this clothing uses that wireless power for various forms of lighting with whatever has replaced LEDs in 2075. Why it can't just use battery power? Fashion? I don't know. This one is silly to me too.

Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Survival Tests (when in terrain addressed with Custom Protection).

I find this one a bit tough to justify too. Built in GPS functions would be helpful in the wilderness, but wouldn't be limited to just a single environment. I guess wireless powered heating or cooling elements? Again, why not just battery power, especially for a wilderness item that may frequently be in Static zones that will prevent it from getting connected to the matrix?


Moving on, some interesting bits from the book that caught my attention:

Sleeping Tiger is an Armor 13 suit available at character creation that is 1 better than a Chameleon Suit at hiding... and is almost x10 the price. I'm guessing infiltration expert characters may be happy to have this option, despite the price tag.

Executive Suite is Armor 12 buisnessware that's only twice as expensive as the Armor Jacket and enhances social limits. Faces and any character that wears a suit instead of an armor jacket for style reasons should be happy to see this. I have a "professional" Decker that will be happy to have a better option than Actioneer Business Clothes for only slightly more.

Big Game Hunter is Armor 14 available at character creation for $5,000, although it makes you look like a hick in hunting camo. I'm guessing if "Urban" is a legal camo option, it might still work for a lot of Shadowrunners.

Second Skin may be intended to stack with any other armor, providing a +2, but it's also now Availability 14, and $12,000.... and of course the Custom Fit (Stack) rules don't exactly back that anyway.

For style reasons I'm tempted to take an Aces High coat the armor for my T-Bird Rigger character, but they are more expensive and less protective than an armor coat, and their special features aren't very useful for a rigger. I might sill do so anyways if I can find the cash for it in the build.

[WolfgangGrafVonB...]

Just playing devils advocate here, have some issues with the wireless rules and am working on some house rules for my upcoming campaign

Wireless Bonus: Increase Social Limit by 2
-The outfit is broadcasting it brand name and being certified by the manufacturers server indicating its real and not a knock off, also it's adding exclusive Versace themed accents to your augmented reality profile.

Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Survival Tests (when in terrain addressed with Custom Protection)
-it downloads real time weather info and exclusive subscriber only Bear Grylls™ survival tips.

Wireless Bonus: Illuminating
-The lights are powered by the same wireless inductive power charging technology that stun batons have, so a battery pack won't ruin the fine tailored lines of the gown.

Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Social Tests when worn within the appropriate corp.
-Same as the other social limit boosts but with corp loyalty themes instead of high fashion .

[Moirdryd]

*points up*
This, totally this. It makes the wireless bits make sense.

[Sengir]

Oops, they did it again...

[Mikado]

Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Survival Tests (when in terrain addressed with Custom Protection)
-it downloads real time weather info and exclusive subscriber only Bear Grylls™ survival tips.

I would rather have the Les Stroud version... He gives better survival tips and does not have to drink his own urine every episode...

[apple]

Easiest to explain as Augmented Reality overlays

I dont need wireless data for AR, since the data is stored on my 800 000¥ Cyberdeck. And the limits are increased, even if i am talking about the matrix cell phone with an matrix icon. And they are increased even when the other have no wireless and no AR.

Built in GPS functions would be helpful in the wilderness, but wouldn't be limited to just a single environment. I guess wireless powered heating or cooling elements? Again, why not just battery power, especially for a wilderness item that may frequently be in Static zones that will prevent it from getting connected to the matrix?

So I would get the bonus with every form of GPS enhancement, survival kit, heat generator? Ah, sorry, I don´t, because I am not wireless.

SYL

[apple]

-The outfit is broadcasting it brand name and being certified by the manufacturers server indicating its real and not a knock off, also it's adding exclusive Versace themed accents to your augmented reality profile.

So why wireless (I cant send it via holograms to the people around me?) and why does it increase my limit when I am talking to another matrix icon on the other side of the globe? Or do you really want to play the devils advocate and say, that for every cloth the people see they contact the server of the manufacturer?

Wireless Bonus: +1 dice pool bonus to Survival Tests (when in terrain addressed with Custom Protection)
-it downloads real time weather info and exclusive subscriber only Bear Grylls™ survival tips.

Ah, yes, because it is not possible with any other piece of equipment.

Wireless Bonus: Illuminating
-The lights are powered by the same wireless inductive power charging technology that stun batons have, so a battery pack won't ruin the fine tailored lines of the gown.

This means I would get the same bonus if I use a .. battery? Ah, no I won´t

SYL

[Sendaz]

This means I would get the same bonus if I use a .. battery? Ah, no I won´t

SYL

*cough* need SpiderWire™ *cough* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[hermit]

So either this has also been written by Devon Oraz, or CGL just have no idea what to do with WiFi Boni that isn't totally ridiculous.

[WolfgangGrafVonB...]

So why wireless (I cant send it via holograms to the people around me?) and why does it increase my limit when I am talking to another matrix icon on the other side of the globe? Or do you really want to play the devils advocate and say, that for every cloth the people see they contact the server of the manufacturer?



Ah, yes, because it is not possible with any other piece of equipment.



This means I would get the same bonus if I use a .. battery? Ah, no I won´t

SYL

Going down the rabbit hole a bit more,

1. because it proves its the real deal. In a world with nanofabrication knock offs must be really close to the real deal and people who are really in to wearing high end fashion would want a way to tell the world how much they spent (in classy low key way). As for talking on the matrix the rules state you only get the limit boost if people can see the outfit.

2. There probably should be a more expensive version of the survival kit that has the same wireless bonus, I would't be surprised to see that in the full book.

3. Yup, you can get the same bonus by using a battery, or a flashlight or a candle, all it does it produce light.

[Epicedion]

Careful, someone might brick your suit and cause it to explode doing 16P damage in a twelve block radius.

[Sendaz]

Careful, someone might brick your suit and cause it to explode doing 16P damage in a twelve block radius.

Shh.... I likes the pretty fireworks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[apple]

nanofabrication

Gone.

3. Yup, you can get the same bonus by using a battery, or a flashlight or a candle, all it does it produce light.

No, you can´t. There are only rules for wireless. Because, if you don´t need a wireless connection for making light then you need no wirelss bonuses for other items as well (because you have just proven that you can replace the wireless system by something as easy as a battery) - for smartlink, medkits, stealth suites, online silencers for example. The entire "choices" system would fall apart. Because then any sane men would argue with "I have my own weather sensor, or my own medical data on my link, or my own sensors to check out the area" - the usual reasons given by the devs why wireless bonuses are so hot.

SYL

[Tanegar]

Gone.



No, you can´t. There are only rules for wireless. Because, if you don´t need a wireless connection for making light then you need no wirelss bonuses for other items as well (because you have just proven that you can replace the wireless system by something as easy as a battery) - for smartlink, medkits, stealth suites, online silencers for example. The entire "choices" system would fall apart. Because then any sane men would argue with "I have my own weather sensor, or my own medical data on my link, or my own sensors to check out the area" - the usual reasons given by the devs why wireless bonuses are so hot.

SYL

The "choices system" (if we can dignify something so moronic by calling it a system) falls apart anyway under the weight of its own idiocy. As many, many people have demonstrated, most if not all of the wireless bonuses vanish in a puff of logic the moment you think critically about them. While "It breaks the system" is a good argument in some cases, this is not one of those cases.